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So there is this "modular" paradigm which (depending on the perspective) goes even above OOP itself. You can write an un-modular OOP piece of software, so to speak. I have read the wikipedia article of course and the "Objects as modules" chapter of the stairways book (its about Scala, by Martin Odersky), I also read the modules section of the wikipedia's LM article, but I still can't get a clear understanding of what exactly is it that a modular design provides.
I think I understand the reason behind it in an abstract form: it provides a kind of separation of concern that is orthogonal to the partitioning mechanisms of the underlying language and even the programming paradigm (say OOP). But I don't quite get how exactly this is achieved. What is it about modules that is not captured by the classes, interfaces or libraries? I feel like I'm missing some big-picture, architectural point here.
Disclaimer: perhaps here is not the right place or perhaps the question itself is vague or even philosophical in nature.
I've recently forayed into the world of functional programming (FP) and am wondering how to "think functionally" for even moderately sized applications? Especially w.r.t. the analysis and design of FPs.
With OOP we're trained to think in terms of objects, their attributes and relations. We model our analyses/designs using class and sequence diagrams. However, the same models seem to be a bad fit when designing for FPs. What are the equivalent modeling paradigms for functional programming? It seems DFDs maybe a good fit but I maybe wrong.
For example: I was thinking of designing a simulation of Monopoly, the board game using Haskell, just to learn the language. When doing OOAD you come up with classes like board contains items that have attributes/methods attached to it. You have player and various other objects and their associated relations that can be captured in a class diagram. And their interactions in a sequence diagram. However, these modeling paradigms doesn't seem to transfer well for functional programs. So just "how" do you model functionally?
Note: I'm looking for concrete references/examples that can explain how to analyze and design functional programs given that I'm coming from a heavily object-oriented way of thinking/modeling.
According to Simon Peyton Jones:
The language in which you write profoundly affects the design of
programs written in that language. For example, in the OO world, many
people use UML to sketch a design. In Haskell or ML, one writes type
signatures instead. Much of the initial design phase of a functional
program consists of writing type definitions. Unlike UML, though, all
this design is incorporated in the final product, and is
machine-checked throughout.
Source: Masterminds of Programming
So instead of drawing all the fancy UML diagrams, you actually write type definitions coupled with undefined in the design phase.
All of my programming these days consists of single-person projects. If I were collaborating on a project with other programmers, I think that writing type definitions and using undefined would be a good approach.
But I gather what you're really looking for is some advice about how you can learn to think functionally. So here are some thoughts.
When programming in Haskell, there are two ways I think about the program I'm writing.
If the program is mathematical, I think of the program as a set of equations.
Otherwise, I tend to think of the program as one or more chains of of data transformations. (So perhaps DFDs would be useful.)
So in your Monopoly example, my first thought would be to figure out how I'm going to represent the state of the board (e.g., which properties have houses, who owns them). Then I might have a function that transforms the board when someone buys a property, and other functions for other things players might do. (There's also monads for representing state, State and StateT. I might use them, if and when I feel they will make the code clearer, but I usually keep things basic to start.)
One of the mistakes I made most often as a beginner was to create a lot of unnecessary classes and data types.
Short answer: composition of smaller programs.
You first study the problem before you, then you develop a set of small operations (often in the form of combinators) that you reckon make sense in that problem's context, and finally you build the solution around those operations. I'm under the impression that all packages found on Hackage follow this approach.
In this way the final solution is (more often than not) simple, clear and elegant. As you can appreciate the aforementioned set of small operations you choose for your solution is critical; with practice, you'll develop the sensibility to pick it wisely.
My book suggestion is Pearls of Functional Algorithm Design, by Richard Bird, Google Books (preview). In this book you'll learn about the calculational approach to functional programming, which I think is most valuable.
Two books you might be interested in:
Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs - a classic intro to CS textbook in Scheme. I think it's a must for programmers interested in FP.
How to Design Programs - similar to SICP, slightly more modern and focuses on design. The language of choice here is Racket.
If you want a hands-on project in Haskell, I'd recommend Write Yourself a Scheme in 48 Hours, a wonderful tutorial for implementing an interpreter for Scheme. AST manipulation is where FP (and especially Haskell) shines, so I think writing an interpreter is a good experience for new FP programmers.
My perspective regarding the FP vs OO analysis and design debate is the following:
OOAD and DDD (Domain-Driven Design) are very useful tools for software systems decomposition;
FP has types, OO has classes and interfaces: they are dual in different worlds;
FP has type instances, OO has class instances (aka, objects in OO);
Use composition in FP, where in OO you would use inheritance;
Both FP and OO languages come with polymorphic constructs;
Both FP and OO use collections (sets, lists and maps) to make connections between instances (of types in FP, and of classes in OO);
Associations in FP are typically implemented as collections of instance IDs, whereas absensein OO they are implemented as collections of references to the memory locations of objects. This comes from the immutability property of data structures in FP.
Most books in FP, like those referred in the other answers before mine, do not show you how to design (aka, decompose) complex real-world problems. They generally demonstrate FP's features with very short examples (e.g., compare them with the examples in Craig Larman's Applying UML and Patterns excelent book, and judge yourself).
For something more close to what could be called Functional-Oriented Analysis and Design (FOAD), I recommend these:
Elixir in Action
Domain Modeling Made Functional: Tackle Software Complexity with Domain-Driven Design and F#
Functional and Reactive Domain Modeling
Functional Programming in Scala
DDD, OOAD, and FOAD, can be implemented in any programming language, however some programming languages offer constructs that make these approaches easier or harder to implement, but they are perfectly practical. This is evident by the many sources you can find discussing DDD in the context of FP.
Dr. Alan Kay said this regarding the essence of OOP (here):
OOP to me means only messaging, local retention and protection and
hiding of state-process, and extreme late-binding of all things. It
can be done in Smalltalk and in LISP. There are possibly other systems
in which this is possible, but I'm not aware of them.
Following this statement, Joe Armstrong, one of Erlang's creator, an FP language with important uses in the industry (e.g., WhatsApp), argues that Erlang is perhaps the most OO language around (see this interview also featuring Ralph Johnson).
Also, some say that Erlang is the best language that captured the essence of OO programming: the passing of messages between objects.
Hope this was helpful.
I can only speak from the perspective of Erlang OTP. We think in terms of processes, which have a state and functions. So in the state the process will have all the "variables" and handler functions react to data the process receives in its message queue. They act on the received data, possibly alter their own state, possibly return some data and/or have some side effects. The state can be stored in a map or a record or any other valid data type. Usually we define a record called state() or loopData().
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Are design patterns really language weaknesses?
After spending years pouring over books on OOP and the techniques of OOP, and recently getting involved more and more in Functional Styles of programming, would it be fair to extrapolate that design patterns are pointers to systemic problems with Object Oriented programming as a whole. Is there a fundamental flaw in Object Oriented Programming (not to be confused with Design), in that in the treatment of state through encapsulation, has led to more and more patterns to resolve the problems with such a paradigm.
I have not come to any conclusions on this, but my "gut" feeling is that there might be something more seriously wrong with the paradigm of OOP.
Is the very idea of encapsulation causing more problems than they solve.
A very good question and something that I have thought about some time ago. This is my conclusion \ opinion:
The idea of object oriented programming is not without flaws, but does provide the most complete design paradigm. If the problem domain is expressed properly, clearly defined object, who knows their responsibilities, can interact in a fairly elegant way, that closely resembles the real world interaction of the objects. (or ideas).
To make some of the more abstract concepts, specific, OOP makes some assertive statements. (Like encapsulation, not expose more than you have to and object responsibility).
Like all generic assumptions, there would be exceptions, when what normally would be a good idea, may not fit a particular problem in hand. It is also not helped by the fact that OOP, covers almost all problem conceived ( unlike AOP or even the more complex semantic modeling, that caters to a specific kind of problem).
So in situations, when you need to make exceptions and move away from OOP assertions, the designers needed a way to keep in bounds of good design, so that they do not stray far too much from accepted design practices.
So design patterns, for me is just case studies of problems, that will not be served by some of the core assertion of OOP. Apart from collaboration and collation of solution, design pattern also helps augment OOP. (especially for newbie designers).
Note: Most of the time, design patterns are not needed. There needs to be, clear justification for using patterns. I know, some greenhorns, trying to implement some design pattern, just because they know them ( and sometime not so greenhorns ;)). Its square peg, round hole problem
Good question, I started wondering about this my self a few weeks ago whilst getting more into Python and Scala.
I think yes and no. There are definitely some intrinsic problems with OOP and the encapsulation of state, but it's not to say that OOP itself is inherently a bad way of doing things. I think the problem is that when all you have is a hammer everything becomes a nail. OOP is great for some things, GUIs come to mind first but functional programming has very clear benefits as well.
It's worth noting that the newer functional programming languages like Scala haven't thrown objects away.
I haven't thought about the issue in great detail but I certainly agree that OOP has some issues that I haven't seen addressed, other than in the form of design patters, which really are addressing the symptoms rather than the disease.
No. Although you see slightly different design patterns, you certainly still see design patterns in functional code as well. The basic difference has little (if anything) to do with lack of state. Rather, it stems primarily from (most) functional languages providing enough more versatility in creating functions that what would be a "design pattern" in another language simply becomes a function in a functional language.
If you provide a (roughly) similar level of versatility in a language that has state, you can get the same effect. Just for example, most of the introduction to Modern C++ Design is defending the position that a design pattern can be encoded as a template (and most of the book is design patterns implemented as templates).
I think there will invariably be problems when you try to apply a single programming paradigm to a problem. That's why I like C++: it's multi-paradigm; it doesn't force you into a single set of solutions.
I am repeating a basic theory of mine, but models are just that - only models. The model defined by OOP is a very effective way to structure a program, and for many application programming domains, is entirely appropriate. For some problem spaces, the model may become decreasingly effective (or less efficient, or both).
A potential metaphore exists with physics. For many, many years Newtonian physics did (and in fact, still does) a remarkable job of modelling the laws of motion, time, and space (with some help from euclidian and sperical geometry). But when science began probing into the micro-and macro aspects of the problem space, Newtonian physics (AND euclidian/Spherical geometry) begin to break down. Hence we now have Relativity and quantumn mechanics. These do a fantastic job of modelling the universe at the macro and micro levels respectively, but are overly convoluted for use as descriptors of every-day, human-scale events.
OOP is very effective for application programming in a lot of cases, when considered in the context of the complexity involved with modelling real-world problems and human interactions for consumption and processing by a linear machine. As someone above observed, there are no silver bullets. And my impression (having never used C++) is that languages which attempt to be multi-paradigm also become more complex, and not necessarily as efficient for smaller problems more easily handled with a higher-level, more targeted language. Much like Quantumn mechanics and/or relativity theories (I mean, really, is anyone interested in the relationship between mass and velocity when travelling at 60 MPH on the freeway? OR the probability of Los angeles being where you expect it to be when you arrive?).
In my impression, adherence to qa specific model is important, so long as the model is suited to the problem space. At the point when this stops being true, the model may need to evolve, and there will be resistence to this. There will be attempts to force the problem space into a model not suited (review the history of physics again, or check into the evolution of the helio-centric model of the solar system, and include the key word "epicycles").
All of the above is simply MY best understanding of the state of things, and if I have missed the mark somewhere, I am happy to hear some contrary news.
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I have been asked to begin teaching C# and OO concepts to a group of procedural programmers. I've searched for ideas on where to begin, but am looking for general consensus on topics to lead with in addition to topics to initially avoid.
Edit
I intend to present information in 30 minute installments weekly until it no longer makes sense to meet. These presentations are targeted at coworkers at a variety of skill levels from novice to expert.
The best thing you can do is: Have a ton of Q&A.
Wikipedia's procedural programming (PP) article really hits where you should start:
Whereas procedural programming uses
procedures to operate on data
structures, object-oriented
programming bundles the two together
so an "object" operates on its "own"
data structure.
Once this is understood, I think a lot will fall into place.
In general
OOP is one of those things that can take time to "get," and each person takes their own path to get there. When writing in C#, it's not like the code screams, "I am using OO principles!" in every line. It's more of a subtle thing, like a foreach loop, or string concatenation.
Design center
Always use something (repeatedly) before making it.
First, use an object, and demonstrate the basic differences from PP. Like:
static void Main(string[] args)
{
List<int> myList = new List<int>();
myList.Add(1);
myList.Add(7);
myList.Add(5);
myList.Sort();
for (int i = 0; i < myList.Count; i++)
{
Console.WriteLine(myList[i]);
}
}
Using objects (and other OO things) first -- before being forced to create their own -- leads people down the path of, "Ok, I'm making something like what I just used," rather than "WTF am I typing?"
Inheritance (it's a trap!)
I would NOT spend a lot of time on inheritance. I think it is a common pitfall for lessons to make a big deal about this (usually making a cliché animal hierarchy, as others pointed out). I think it's critical to know about inheritance, to understand how to use the .NET Framework, but its nuances aren't that big of a deal.
When I'm using .NET, I'm more likely to "run into inheritance" when I'm using the .NET Framework (i.e. "Does this control have a Content property?" or "I'll just call its ToString() method.") rather than when I'm creating my own class. Very (very (very)) rarely do I feel the need to make something mimicking the taxonomy structure of the animal kingdom.
Interfaces
Coding to an interface is a key mid-level concept. It's used everywhere, and OOP makes it easier. Examples of this are limitless. Building off the example I have above, one could demonstrate the IComparer<int> interface:
public int Compare(int x, int y)
{
return y.CompareTo(x);
}
Then, use it to change the sort order of the list, via myList.Sort(this). (After talking about this, of course.)
Best practices
Since there are some experienced developers in the group, one strategy in the mid-level classes would be to show how various best practices work in C#. Like, information hiding, the observer pattern, etc.
Have a ton of Q&A
Again, everyone learns slightly differently. I think the best thing you can do is have a ton of Q&A and encourage others in the group to have a discussion. People generally learn more when they're involved, and you have a good situation where that should be easier.
The leap from procedural to object oriented (even within a language - for four months I programmed procedural C++, and classes were uncomfortable for a while after) can be eased if you emphasize the more basic concepts that people don't emphasize.
For instance, when I first learned OOP, none of the books emphasized that each object has its own set of data members. I was trying to write classes for input validation and the like, not understanding that classes were to operate on data members, not input.
Get started with data structures right away. They make the OOP paradigm seem useful. People teach you how to make a "House" class, but since most beginning programmers want to do something useful right away, that seems like a useless detour.
Avoid polymorphism right away. Inheritance is alright, but teach when it is appropriate (instead of just adding to your base class).
Operator overloading is not essential when you are first learning, and the special ctors (default, dtor, copy ctor, and assignment operator all have their tricky aspects, and you might want to avoid that until they are grounded in basic class design).
Have them build a Stack or a Linked List. Don't do anything where traversal is tricky, like a binary tree.
Do it in stages.
High level concepts : Describe what an object is and relate it to real life.
Medium level concepts: Now that they got what object is, try compare and contrast. Show them why global variable is bad compared to an encapsulated value in a class. What advantage they might get from encapsulating. Start introducing the tennets of OOP (encapsulation, inheritance)
Low Level concepts: Go in further into polymorphism and abstraction. Show them how they can gain even better design through polymorphism and abstraction.
Advance concepts: SOLID, Interface programming, OO design patterns.
Perhaps you should consider a problem that is work related and start with a procedural implementation of it and then work through (session by session) how to make an OOP implementation of it. I find professionals often grasp concepts better if it is directly related to real examples from their own work place. The junk examples most textbooks use are often horrible for understanding because they leave the student wondering, why on earth would I ever want to do that. Give them a real life reason why they would want to do that and it makes more sense.
I would avoid the "a bicycle is a kind of veichle" approach and try to apply OO to an environment that is fairly specific and that they are already used to. Try to find a domain of problems that they all recognize.
Excercise the basics in that domain, but try to move towards some "wow!" or "aha!" experience relatively early; I had an experience like that while reading about "Replace Conditional with Polymorphism" in Fowlers Refactoring, that or similar books could be a good source of ideas. If I recall correctly, Michael Feathers Working effectively with legacy code contains a chapter about how to transform a procedural program into OO.
Teach Refactoring
Teach the basics, the bare minimum of OO principles, then teach Refactoring hands-on.
Traditional Way: Abstractions > Jargon Cloud > Trivial Implementation > Practical Use
(Can you spot the disconnect here? One of these transitions is harder than the others.)
In my experience most traditional education does not do a good job in getting programmers to actually grok OO principles. Instead they learn a bit of the syntax, some jargon they have a vague understanding of, and a couple canonical design examples that serve as templates for a lot of what they do. This is light years from the sort of thorough understanding of OO design and engineering one would desire competent students to obtain. The result tends to be that code gets broken down into large chunks in what might best be described as object-libraries, and the code is nominally attached to objects and classes but is very, very far from optimal. It's exceedingly common, for example, to see several hundred line methods, which is not very OO at all.
Provide Contrast To Sharpen The Focus on the Value of OO
Teach students by giving them the tools up front to improve the OO design of existing code, through refactoring. Take a big swath of procedural code, use extract method a bunch of times using meaningful method names, determine groups of methods that share a commonality and port them off to their own class. Replace switch/cases with polymorphism. Etc. The advantages of this are many. It gives students experience in reading and working with existing code, a key skill. It gives a more thorough understanding of the details and advantages of OO design. It's difficult to appreciate the merits of a particular OO design pattern in vacuo, but comparing it to a more procedural style or a clumsier OO design puts those merits in sharp contrast.
Build Knowledge Through Mental Models and Expressive Terminology
The language and terminology of refactoring help students in understanding OO design, how to judge the quality of OO designs and implementations through the idea of code smells. It also provides students a framework with which to discuss OO concepts with their peers. Without the models and terminology of, say, an automobile transmission, mechanics would have a difficult time communicating with each other and understanding automobiles. The same applies to OO design and software engineering. Refactoring provides abundant terminology and mental models (design patterns, code smells and corresponding favored specific refactorings, etc.) for the components and techniques of software engineering.
Build an Ethic of Craftsmanship
By teaching students that design is not set in stone you bolster students' confidence in their ability to experiment, learn, and discover. By getting their hands dirty they'll feel more empowered in tackling software engineering problems. This confidence and practical skill will allow them to truly own the design of their work (because they will always have the skills and experience to change that design, if they desire). This ownership will hopefully help foster a sense of responsibility, pride, and craftsmanship.
First, pick a language like C# or Java and have plenty of samples to demonstrate. Always show them the big picture or the big idea before getting into the finer details of OO concepts like abstraction or encapsulation. Be prepared to answer a lot of why questions with sufficient real world examples.
I'm kinda surprised there's any pure procedural programmers left ;-)
But, as someone who started coding back in the early 80s on procedural languages such as COBOL, C and FORTRAN, I remember the thing I had most difficulty with was instantiation. The concept of an object itself wasn't that hard as basically they are 'structures with attached methods' (looked at from a procedural perspective) but handling how and when I instantiated an object - and in those days without garbage collection - destroyed them caused me some trouble.
I think this arises because in some sense a procedural programmer can generally point to any variable in his code any say that's where that item of data is directly stored, whereas as soon as you instantiated an object and assign values to that then it's much less directly tangible (using pointers and memory allocation in C is of course similar, which may be a useful starting point also if your students have C experience). In essence I suppose it means that your procedural -> OOPS programmer has to learn to handle another level of abstraction in their code, and getting comfortable with this mental step is more difficult than it appears. By extension I'd therefore make sure that your students are completely comfortable with allocating and handling objects before looking at such potentially confusing concepts as static methods.
I'd recommend taking a look at Head First Design Patterns which has really nice and easy to understand examples of object oriented design which should really help. I wouldn't emphasize the 'patterns' aspect too much at this point though.
I'm a vb.net intermediate programmer, and I'm learning OOP. One of the things I find is the lecturing about the concepts over and over is unnerving. I think what would be perfect documentation would be a gradual transition from procedural programming to full blown OOP rather than trying to force them to understand the concepts then have them write exclusively OOP code using all the concepts. That way they can tinker with little projects like "hello world" without the intimidation of design.
For example (this is for VB.NET beginners not advanced procedural programmers).
I think the first chapters should always be about the general concepts, with just a few examples, but you should not force them to code strictly OOP right away, get them used to the language, so that it's natural for them. When I first started, I had to go back and read the manual over and over to remember HOW to write the code, but I had to wade through pages and pages of lecturing about concepts. Painful!
I just need to remember how to create a ReadOnly Property, or something. What would be real handy would be a section of the book that is a language reference so you can easily look in there to find out HOW to write the code.
Then you briefly explaining how forms, and all the objects are already objects, that have methods, and show how they behave, and example code.
Then show them how to create a class, and have them create a class that has properties, and methods, and the new construct. Then have them basically switch from them using procedural code in the form or modules, to writing methods for classes.
Then you just introduce more advance codes as you would any programming language.
Show them how inheritance works, etc. Just keep expanding, and let them use thier creativity to discover what can be done.
After they get used to writing and using classes, then show how thier classes could improve, introducing the concepts one by one in the code, modifying the existing projects and making them better. One good idea is to take an example project in procedural code, and transform it into a better application in OOP showing them all the limitations of OOP.
Now after that is the advanced part where you get into some really advanced OOP concepts, so that folks who are familar with OOP already get some value out of the book.
Define an object first, not using some silly animal, shape, vehicle example, but with something they already know. The C stdio library and the FILE structure. It's used as an opaque data structure with defined functions. Map that from a procedural use to an OO usage and go from there to encapsulation, polymorphism, etc.
If they are good procedural programmers and know what a structure and a pointer to a function are, the hardest part of the job is already done!
I think a low level lecture about how Object Oriented Programming can be implemented in procedural languages, or even assembler, could be cool. Then they will appreciate the amount of work that the compiler does for them; and maybe they will find coding patterns that they already knew and have used previously.
Then, you can talk about best practices in good Object Oriented design and introduce a bit of UML.
And a very important thing to keep in mind always is that they're not freshmen, don't spend much time with basic things because they'll get bored.
Show Design Patterns in Examples
There where some plenty good answers, alright. I also think, that you should use good languages, good, skillful examples, but I have an additional suggestion:
I have learned what OOP means, by studying Design Patterns. Of course, I have of course learned an OO-language before, but until I was working on Design Patterns, I did not understand the power of it all.
I also learned much from OO-Gurus like Robert C. Martin and his really great papers (to be found on his companies site).
Edit: I also advocate the use of UML (class diagrams) for teaching OO/Design-Pattern.
The thing that made it click for me was introducing Refactoring and Unit Testing. Most of my professional programming career has been in OO Languages, but I spent most of it writing procedural code. You call a function on an instance of class X, and it called a different method on an instance of class Y. I didn't see what the big deal about interfaces was, and thought that inheritance was simply a concept of convenience, and classes were by and large a way of helping us sort and categorize the massive code. If one was masochistic enough, they could have easily go through some of my old projects and inline everything until you get to one massive class. I'm still acutely embarrassed at how bad my code was, how naive my architecture was.
It half-clicked when we went through Martin Fowler's Refactoring book, and then fully clicked when started going through and writing Unit and Fitnesse tests for our code, forcing us to refactor. Start pushing refactoring, dependency injection, and separation of the code into distinct MVC models. Either it will sink in, or their heads will explode.
If someone truly doesn't get it, maybe they aren't cut out for working on OO, but I don't think anyone from our team got completely lost, so hopefully you'll have the same luck.
I'm an OO developer professionally, but have had had procedural developers on my development team (they were developing Matlab code, so it worked). One of the concepts that I like in OO programming is how objects can relate to your domain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-driven_design - Eric Evans wrote a book on this, but it is not a beginner's book by any stretch).
With that said, I would start with showing OO concepts at a high level. Try to have them design a car for example. Most people would say a car has a body, engine, wheels, etc. Explain how those can relate to real world objects.
Once they seem to grasp that high level concept, then I would start in on the actual code part of it and concepts like inheritance vs aggregation, polymorphism, etc.
I learned about OOP during my post-secondary education. They did a fairly good job of explaining the concepts, but completely failed in explaining why and when. They way they taught OOP was that absolutely everything had to be an object and procedural programming was evil for some reason. The examples they were giving us seemed overkill to me, partly because objects didn't seem like the right solution to every problem, and partly because it seemed like a lot of unnecessary overhead. It made me despise OOP.
In the years since then, I've grown to like OOP in situations where it makes sense to me. The best example I can think of this is the most recent web app I wrote. Initially it ran off a single database of its own, but during development I decided to have it hook into another database to import information about new users so that I could have the application set them up automatically (enter employee ID, retrieves name and department). Each database had a collection of functions that retrieved data, and they depended on a database connection. Also, I wanted an obvious distinction which database a function belonged to. To me, it made sense to create an object for each database. The constructors did the preliminary work of setting up the connections.
Within each object, things are pretty much procedural. For example, each class has a function called getEmployeeName() which returns a string. At this point I don't see a need to create an Employee object and retrieve the name as a property. An object might make more sense if I needed to retrieve several pieces of data about an employee, but for the small amount of stuff I needed it didn't seem worth it.
Cost. Explain how when properly used the features of the language should allow software to be written and maintained for a lower cost. (e.g. Java's Foo.getBar() instead of the foo->bar so often seen in C/C++ code).Otherwise why are we doing it?
I found the book Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming to be very helpful in understanding and giving me a vocabulary to discuss the differences in language paradigms. The book doesn't really cover Java or C# as 00-languages, but rather the concepts of different paradigms. If i was teaching OO i would start by showing the differences in the paradigms, then slowly the differences in the 00-languages, the practical stuff they can pickup by themselves doing coursework/projects.
When I moved from procedural to object oriented, the first thing I did was get familiarized with static scope.
Java is a good language to start doing OO in because it attempts to stay true to all the different OO paradigms.
A procedural programmer will look for things like program entry and exit points and once they can conceptualize that static scope on a throwaway class is the most familiar thing to them, the knowledge will blossom out from there.
I remember the lightbulb moment quite vividly. Help them understand the key terms abstract, instance, static, methods and you're probably going to give them the tools to learn better moving forward.
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Closed 10 years ago.
I asked a question previously about Dataset vs Business Objects
.NET Dataset vs Business Object : Why the debate? Why not combine the two?
and I want to generalize the question here: where is the proof that OOP is really suitable for very complex problems ? Let's take a MMO Game Engine for example. I'm not specialist at all but as I read this article, it clearly stands that OOP is far from being enough:
http://t-machine.org/index.php/2007/11/11/entity-systems-are-the-future-of-mmog-development-part-2/
It concludes:
Programming well with Entity Systems is very close to programming with a Relational Database. It would not be unreasonable to call ES’s a form of “Relation Oriented Programming”.
So isn't OOP trying to get rid off something that is here to stay ?
OOP is non-linear, Relational is linear, both are necessary depending on the part of a system so why try to eliminate Relational just because it isn't "pure" Object. Is OOP an end by itself ?
My question is not is OOP usefull. OOP is usefull, my question is rather why the purists want to do "pure" OOP ?
As the author of the linked post, I thought I'd throw in a couple of thoughts.
FYI: I started seriously (i.e. for commercial work) using OOP / ORM / UML in 1997, and it took me about 5 years of day to day usage to get really good at it IMHO. I'd been programming in ASM and non-OOP languages for about 5 years by that point.
The question may be imperfectly phrased, but I think it's a good question to be asking yourself and investigating - once you understand how to phrase it better, you'll have learnt a lot useful about how this all hangs together.
"So isn't OOP trying to get rid off something that is here to stay ?"
First, read Bjarne's paper here: http://www.stroustrup.com/oopsla.pdf
IMHO, no-one should be taught any OOP without reading that paper (and re-reading after they've "learnt" OOP). So many many people misunderstand what they're dealing with.
IME, many university courses don't teach OOP well; they teach people how to write methods, and classes, and how to use objects. They teach poorly why you would do these things, where the ideas come from, etc. I think much of the mis-usage comes from that: almost a case of the blind leading the blind (they aren't blind in "how" to use OOP, they're just blind in "why" to use OOP).
To quote from the final paragraphs of the paper:
"how you support good programming techniques and good design techniques matters more than labels and buzz words. The fundamental idea is simply to improve design and programming through abstraction. You want to hide details, you want to exploit any commonality in a system, and you want to make this affordable.
I would like to encourage you not to make object-oriented a meaningless term. The notion of ‘‘object-oriented’’ is too frequently debased:
– by equating it with good,
– by equating it with a single language, or
– by accepting everything as object-oriented.
I have argued that there are–and must be–useful techniques beyond object-oriented programming and design. However, to avoid being totally misunderstood, I would like to emphasize that I wouldn’t attempt a serious project using a programming lan-
guage that didn’t at least support the classical notion of object-oriented programming. In addition to facilities that support object-oriented programming, I want –and C++ provides features that go beyond those in their support for direct expression of concepts and relationships."
Now ... I'd ask you ... of all the OOP programmers and OOP projects you've seen, how many of them can honestly claim to have adhered to what Bjarne requests there?
IME, less than the majority.
Bjarne states that:
"The fundamental idea is simply to improve design and programming through abstraction"
...and yet many people invent for themselves a different meaning, something like:
"The fundamental idea is that OOP is good, and everything-not-OOP is inferior"
Programmers who have programmed sequentially with ASM, then later ASM's, then pascal, then C, then C++, and have been exposed to the chaos that was programming pre-encapsulation etc tend to have better understanding of this stuff. They know why OOP came about, what it was trying to solve.
Funnily enough, OOP was not trying to solve every programming problem. Who'd have htought it, to say how it's talked about today?
It was aimed at a small number of problems that were hugely dangerous the bigger your project got, and which it turned out to be somewhere between "good" and "very good" at solving.
But even some of them it isn't any better than merely "good" at solving; there are other paradigms that are better...
All IMHO, of course ;)
Systems of any notable complexity are not linear. Even if you worked really hard to make a system one linear process, you're still relying on things like disks, memory and network connections that can be flaky, so you'll need to work around that.
I don't know that anyone thinks OOP is the final answer. It's just a way of dealing with complexity by trying to keep various problems confined to the smallest possible sphere so the damage they do when they blow up is minimized. My problem with your question is that it assumes perfection is possible. If it were, I could agree OOP isn't necessary. It is for me until someone comes up with a better way for me to minimize the number of mistakes I make.
Just read yr article about Entity Systems, which compares ES to OOP, and it is flagrantly wrong about several aspects of OOP. for e.g., When there are 100 instances of a class, OOP does not mandate that there be 100 copies of the classes methods loaded in memory, only one is necessary. Everything that ES purports to be able to do "better" than OOP because it has "Components", and "Systems", OOP supports as well using interfaces and static classes, (and/or Singletons).
And OOP more naturally fits with the real-world, as any real or imagined Problem Domain, consisting of multiple physical and/or non-physical items and abstractions, and the relationships between them, can be modeled with an appropriately designed hiearchical OOP class structure.
What we try to do is put an OO style on top of a relational system. In C# land this gets us a strongly typed system so that everything from end to end can be compiled and tested. The database has a hard time being tested, refactored, etc. OOP allows us to organize our application into layers and hiearchies which relational doesn't allow.
Well you've got a theoretical question.
Firstly let me agree with you that OOP is not a solve-all solution. It's good for somethings, it's not good for others. But that doesn't mean it doesn't scale up. Some horribly complex and huge systems have been designed using OOP.
I think OOP is so popular because it deserves to be. It solves some problems rather wonderfully, it is easy to think in terms of Objects because we can do that without re-programming ourselves.
So until we can all come up with a better alternatives that actually works in practical life, I think OOP is a pretty good idea and so are relational databases.
There is really no limit to what OOP can deal with - just as there is no real limit to what C can deal with, or assembler for that matter. All are Turing-complete, which is all you really need.
OOP simply gives you a higher-level way of breaking down the program, just as C is a higher-level than assembler.
The article about entity systems does not say that OO cannot do this - in fact, it sounds like they are using OOP to implement their Entities, Components, etc. In any complex domain there will be different ways of breaking it down, and using OOP you can break it down to the object/class level at some point. This does not preclude having higher-level conceptual frameworks which are used to design the OOP system.
The problem isn't the object oriented approach in most situations, the problem is performance and actual development of the underlying hardware.
The OO paradigm approach software development by providing us with a metaphor of the real world, were we have concepts which defines the common accepted and expected properties and behaivour of real objects in the world. Is the way that humans model things and we're able to solve most of the problems with it.
In theory you can define every aspect of a game, system or whatever using OO. In practice if you do, your program will simply behave too slow so the paradigm is messed up by optimizations which trade the simplicity of the model from performance.
In that way, relational databases are not object oriented so we build an object oriented layer between our code and the database... by doing so you lost some of the performance of the database and some of its expressiveness because, from the point of view of OO paradigm a relational database is a full class, is an very complex object that provides information.
From my point of view OO is an almost perfect approach in the theoretical sense of the word, as it maps closely to the way we, humans, think, but it doesn't fit well with the limited resources of the computational development... so we take shortcuts. At the and, performance is far more important than theoretical organization or clearness so this shortcuts become standards or usual practices.
That is, we are adapting the theoretical model to our current limitations. In the times of cobol in the late 70's object oriented was simply impossible... it would imply to many aspects and too little performance so we used a simplified approach, so simplified you didn't have objects or class, you had variables ... but the concept was, in that time, the same. Groups of variables described related concepts, properties that today will feet into an object. Control sequences based on a variable value where used to replace class hierarchies and so on.
I think we've been using OOP for a long time and that we'll continue using it for a long time. As hardware capabilities improve we'll be able to unsimplify the model so that it becomes more adaptable. If I describe perfectly (almost) the concept of a cat (which involves a lot of describing for a lot of concepts involved) that concept will be able to be reused everywhere... the problem here is not, as I've said, with the paradigm itself but with our limitations to implement it.
EDIT: To answer the question about why use pure OO. Every "science" wants to have a complete model to represent things. We have two physic models to describe nature, one at the microscopic level and one for the macroscopic one, and we want to have just one because it simplifies things it provides us with a better way to prove, test and develop things. With OO the same process applies. You can't analytically test and prove a system if the system doesn't follow a precise set of rules. If you are changing between paradigms in a program then your program cannot be properly analized, it has to be disected in each one, analized and then analized again to see that the interactions are correct. It makes a lot more difficult to understand a system because in fact you have two or three system that interact in different ways.
Guys, isn't the question more about ORM than OOP? OOP is a style of programming - the thing that actually gets compared is a Relational Database mapped onto objects.
OOP is actually more than just the ORM! It's also not just the inheritance and polymorphism! It's an extremly wide range of design patterns and above all it's the way we think about programming itself.
Jorge: it's ok that you've pointed out the opitimization part - what you didn't add is that this step should be done last and in 99% cases the slow part is not the OOP.
Now plain and simple: the OOP style with all the principals added to it (clean code, use of design patterns, not to deep inheritance structures and let's not forget unit testing!) it a way to make more people understand what you wrote. That in turn is needed for companies to keep their bussiness secure. That's also a recepie for small teams to have better understanding with the community. It's like a common meta language on top of the programming language itself.
It's always easier to talk about concepts from a purists point of view. Once you're faced with a real life problem things get trickier and the world is no longer just black and white. Just like the author of the article is very thorough in pointing out that they're not doing OOP the "OOP purist" tells you that OOP is the only way to go. The truth is somewhere in between.
There is no single answer, as long as you understand the different ways (OOP, entity systems, functional programming and many more) of doing things and can give good reason for why you're choosing one over the other in any given situation you're more likely to succeed.
About Entity Systems. It's an interesting conception but it brings nothing really new. For example it states:
OOP style would be for each Component to have zero or more methods, that some external thing has to invoke at some point. ES style is for each Component to have no methods but instead for the continuously running system to run it’s own internal methods against different Components one at a time.
But isn't it same as Martin Fowler's anti-pattern called "Anemic Domain Model" (which is extensively used nowadays, in fact) link ?
So basically ES is an "idea on the paper". For people to accept it, it MUST be proven with working code examples. There is not a single word in the article on how to implement this idea on practice. Nothing said about scalability concerns. Nothing said about fault tolerance...
As for your actual question I don't see how Entity Systems described in article can be similar to relational databases. Relational databases have no such thing as "aspects" that are described in the article. In fact, relational - based on tables data structure - is very limited when it comes to working with hierarchical data, for example. More limited than for example object databases...
Could you clarify what exactly you are trying to compare and prove here? OOP is a programming paradigm, one of the many. It's not perfect. It's not a silver bullet.
What does "Relation Oriented Programming" mean? Data-centric? Well, Microsoft was moving towards more data-centric style of programming until they given up on Linq2Sql and fully focused on their O/RM EntityFramework.
Also relational databases isn't everything. There is many different kinds of database architectures: hierarchical databases, network databases, object databases ect. And those can be even more efficient than relational. Relational are so popular for nearly the same reasons why OOP is so popular: it's simple, very easy to understand and most often efficient enough.
Ironically when oo programming arrived made it much easier to build larger systems, this was reflected in the ramp up in software to market.
Regarding scale and complexity, with good design you can build pretty complex systems.
see ddd Eric Evans for some principle patterns on handling complexity in oo.
However not all problem domains are best suited to all languages, if you have the freedom to choose a language choose one that suits your problem domain. or build a dsl if that's more appropriate.
We are software engineers after all, unless there is someone telling you how to do your job, just use the best tools for the job, or write them :)