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I have an ASP.NET MVC 4 project and I'm stuck on an architectural decision on which JavaScript framework or library to use Angular.js or Knock.js. I am currently leaning towards using Angular.js over Knockout.js, but don't want to find out midway during project development I made a mistake.
Here is some background:
We need two-way model data binding
We need the ability to test views. I want to be able to do end to end unit testing. Also, we are using continuous integration.
"Save Changes" functionality. i.e. if a user makes changes on a page we need the ability to detect any changes and prompt the user to save their changes before they navigate away from the page
"Notifications" functionality. i.e. user will be logged on approximately 8 hours and will need to be notified and updated of changes made by other users (errors, data status changes and the like)
We need to "future proof" our application. Currently the business unit hasn't decided if we will need to support mobile devices, but I know it's just a matter of time.
Our team consists of developers with varying experience levels from very junior to senior developers.
Currently our models are complicated and may get even more so
We need to also consider RAD, code reuse, and maintainability
I have read the excellent answer here and watched Scott Allen's interview about Angular here
Since we are unable to change from our current ASP.NET MVC 4 architecture to use something on the server side like Web API I have some concerns in trying to implement Angular.js with MVC 4. Will this cause us to have two models one on the server and one on the client?
I am not looking for a "which is better" discussion about Angular and Knockout because I think they both have their pros and cons. I am looking for actual code on implementing a JavaScript framework or library in an ASP.NET MVC 4 application. I need a solution that I can live with 2+ years from now :)
Any ideas or suggestions? Maybe the answer is not Knock or Angular, but some other JavaScript framework?
my 2 cents worth.
preamble - i have worked with both angular and knockout.
I'm on my 3rd non trivial front end built with a MVVM/MVC lib.
I started with knockout because its MVVM is very similar to the wpf/silverlight mechanics. And it works well. The tutorials and documentation are top notch. All your coders will be able to work with knockout.js within days or if they have used mvvm under .net, then within hours.
However, these days I am using angular and will probably stick with it for the following reasons.
angular is a complete framework - knockout is really about just the 2
way binding. you still need other libraries like backbone.js/jquery
to do the rest of your work.
angular has dependency injection. which is perfect for adding
mocking for testing as well as giving structure to your code.
angular treats normal JS variables as observables within its $scope
object. that means you dont have to declare them in a special way
I'm not an angular fanboy, i still think they could move more over to the MVVM architecture instead of the "funky" MVVM/MVC hybrid architecture they currently have.
The biggest problem with angular is the documentation. Compared to knockout, it is woeful. It will add additional time and cost to getting your coders up to speed. Once they are there however, it is currently the best choice IMHO.
Glad to see this questions was of interest to the community ;) Just for completeness here's what I ended up doing:
I did go with AngularJS and ASP.NET MVC 4 and was glad that I did. Although, Angular has a steep learning curve but its worth it because of the power of directives.
We need two-way model data binding - On occassion I needed to set some initial values coming from the MVC controller. I used the ng-init attribute to accomplish this.
We need the ability to test views - I followed the AngularJS docs for testing
"Save Changes" functionality - I implemented this using a directive in Angular
"Notifications" functionality - I implemented this using toastr.js and and directives (schweet)
We need to "future proof" our application - I don't know Google's plans for AngularJS, but after working with AngularJS I can't see it going anywhere anytime soon and expected it to become more widely adopted :)
I don't have a lot of input on AngularJs, but want to provide some thoughts on Knockout.
Knockout is primarily a data-binding library to connect views to view model, but doesn't really provide a lot of capabilities beyond that. I wouldn't recommend using knockout alone as the main library to build a complex client-based web site.
You didn't mention whether you're implementing spa-like functionality (i.e. hash-tag navigation) or whether you're primarily using MVC server-side views (e.g. Razor). If you're just looking for quick data-binding on a per-page level, I would even reconsider that. To me, both of these (angular or knockout) are designed to enhance the client-side development experience - not so much a server-side approach such as MVC.
If you're considering an SPA approach, even in part, you'll likely want some framework that provides some level of control over the view activation life cycle.
As far as data-binding power and reliability, I believe in Knockout. I have been using it extensively, and have grown quite fond of it. If you like the feel of knockout, you may want to look into Durandal. Durandal is a decent framework is able to meet the needs of many "spa" web projects. It's a client-side framework built on top of several proven libraries, including Knockout. It's a little (lot) more light-weight than Angular, and possibly easier to user.
We are building a fairly large ASP.Net MVC web site using Durandal with Knockout in conjunction with an additional facade to tighten things up from a development standpoint, and the integration with ASP.Net MVC is straight-forward. I don't recommend trying to use the server-side knockout stuff that's out there; I just find that to limit the real power of the MVVM pattern.
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I’m starting a new websphere commerce V7 Feature Pack 8 project from scratch.
Besides performance, my intention is to have a system that is easily maintainable for the future.
I’m not a big fan of dojo for lack of documentation, bloatedness, and complexity. Is it best practice to replace the dojo/dijit with jquery/requireJS/jquery ui? Or just stick with dojo?
Say I go with dojo, I’m not a fan of mixing libraries together. Could there be any conflicts or performance issues mixing jQuery and dojo together?
If you can mix both together, which one UI Library would you go with, dijit or jQuery ui? The websphere aurora wraps a lot of functionality around dijit, so I'm guessing dijit would be a first choice.
All advice would be appreciated!!!
This question is bound to be subjective, but I am compelled to address each of your points above:
While the full Dojo Toolkit source is large (mostly because of dojox), it doesn't have to be bloated - it's not as if you're forced to load nearly everything in it, you only actually load what you need. The build system can also reduce most of your dependencies to two JS files (modules + i18n bundles) with very little additional work for a well-structured application (i.e. with a main top-level module that dependencies can be easily determined from).
The documentation for Dojo and Dijit is significantly better now than years ago when it might've gotten a bad reputation for it. In addition to the reference guide, there are over 50 tutorials.
Dojo can certainly seem complex when compared with smaller or simpler libraries that don't set out to do as much, but I wouldn't bill it as any more complex than it needs to be for large single-page Web applications. In fact, I'd much sooner say that you're likely to end up with something far more complex (and less maintainable!) if you start with something that gives you far less flexibility and then find you need to cobble things together to fill the gaps.
Dojo provides a cohesive toolkit including the following out of the box:
Module dependency system (supporting AMD, the same standard that RequireJS implements)
Powerful inheritance and mixin capabilities with dojo/_base/declare
An intuitive promise-based XHR API in dojo/request, which can be enhanced/extended with dojo/request/registry
Support for localizing your application using the dojo/i18n! plugin
A full library of stylable and accessible widgets in Dijit
Cohesive data APIs in dojo/store
If you feel that you don't need all of this or are comfortable rolling your own, then that's up to you, but it's a daunting task to do all of that and keep it cohesive and maintainable, which is what Dojo gives you a head-start on.
Regarding which UI library to use, while I can't say I've used jQuery UI extensively, I would at least say that if accessibility or flexibility/extensibility are at all a concern, I would choose Dijit over it any day of the week.
To your question about using Dojo and jQuery together, Dojo generally doesn't get in the way of other libraries. Some other older libraries liked to add enumerable properties to native prototypes, which could potentially throw off unprotected for...in loops in Dojo (and anyone else's code, for that matter), but jQuery doesn't do that. Additionally, jQuery supports being loaded as an AMD module, so you can even use it with Dojo's require and define.
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I want to create a website for bookstore and I'm confused which one should I use either ASP.NET WebForms or MVC?
Can anyone have idea which is efficient and will provide better throughput?
I know Microsoft has said "ASP.NET MVC is not a replacement for WebForms". Some developers say WebForms is faster to develop than MVC, but I believe this all comes down to comfort level with the technology; so I don't want any answers in this direction.
Given that ASP.NET MVC gives a developer more control over our application, why is WebForms not considered obsolete? When should I favor WebForms over MVC for new development?
You don't have to make that decision right now.
In VS 2013 you can mix and match WebForms, WebAPI and MVC, even in the same project:
http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2013/10/17/announcing-the-release-of-visual-studio-2013-and-great-improvements-to-asp-net-and-entity-framework.aspx
I found this answer on web and found helpful , so I though I should share this with you. :)
Webforms vs. MVC seems to be a hot topic right now. Everyone I know touts MVC to be the next great thing. From my slight dabblings in it, it seems ok, but no I don't think it will be the end of webforms.
My reasoning, and the reasoning as to why webforms would be chosen over MVC, has more to do with a business perspective rather than what one is better than the other.
Time/money are the greatest reasons why webforms would be chosen over MVC.
If most of your team knows webforms, and you don't have the time to get them up to speed on MVC, the code that will be produced may not be quality. Learning the basics of MVC then jumping in and doing that complex page that you need to do are very different things. The learning curve is high so you need to factor that into your budget.
If you have a large website written all in webforms, you might be more inclined to make any new pages in webforms so that you don't have two very different types of pages in your site.
I'm not saying it's an all or nothing approach here, but it does make your code harder to maintain if there is a split of both, especially if not everyone on the team is familiar with MVC.
My company recently did three test pages with MVC. We sat down and designed them out. One issue we ran into is that most of our screens have the View and Edit functionality on the same page. We ended up needing more than one form on the page. No biggy, except then we wouldn't use our masterpage. We had to revamp that so that both the webforms pages and MVC pages could use the same masterpage for common look and feel. Now we have an extra layer of nesting.
We needed to create a whole new folder structure for these pages so that it followed the proper MVC separation.
I felt there were too many files for 3 pages, but that is my personal opinion.
In my opinion, you would choose webforms over MVC if you don't have the time/money to invest in updating your site to use MVC. If you do a half arsed approach to this, it won't be any better than the webforms you have now. Worse, you could even be setting this technology up for failure in your company if it's messed up, as upper management might see it as something inferior to what they know.
Is OpenSwing a good framework for developing professional desktop application?
I was recently using the OpenSwing Framework. I can say only the best for the functionalities which are provided with the framework. It is a multitier concept with excelent data binding possibilities. My App uses a small Derby DB in background and I’m managing it with hibernate.
I’m sure, you will be able to advance very fast and provide a working prototype very quick. I would advice you to read the available doc first and to run the provided examples (http://oswing.sourceforge.net/).
However, it has another side which you should be aware of and you will probably notice by yourself if you run the examples. The GridFrame, GridFrameControler, DetailFrame, DetailFrameControler etc classes are not really generic. There are a lot of dependencies bult in and you will have to customize them again and again for every single implementation (can be seen in the demos).
I had another approach, I invested some time in building my own classes which are generic and using the unchanged OpenSwing classes in the background first. Now I’m only setting the properties file where all details are pre-defined. The rest is generic and I don’t have to re-code again and again for every single frame.
I hope this will help.
Regards
I used the openswing in team for more than two years.
It's a pretty nice swing framework for the enterprise development used in the Internal.
It provide great component based by MVP pattern ,such as grid , document ...
If you try it , It's a good article for you about Model-View-Presenter
And try the demo in the source,It's quite good.
The JAllInOne is also a good demo for the framework also made by the mcarniel
and It's a personal project only developed by mcarniel. Thanks mcarniel's great work.
I spend a lot of time (actually too much time) developping back-office applications whose main purpose is content management and web application configurations. Here is how I can describe these apps :
- Made with PHP
- Using a MySQL or Postgres or SQLite database
- Made of a lot of pages and features
- Very simple features, mostly data CRUD (create+read+update+delete into the database)
- Mostly made of forms
- UIs are usually quite simple (html + css + very basic javascript)
All of the data access code in these apps relies on a library I developped years ago and re-use every time I can. This part is not time-consuming.
What's time-consuming is the UI part, and mostly designing data-lists and forms. Using a WYSIWYG editor would make a lot of sense here, except those I tried (Dreamweaver, Frontpage, Expression, Eclipse, ...) don't really make it much faster, because the generated code is often bloated, and these tools can't rely on custom libraries such as the one I made and use.
I figured using a Web Tookit could be another way to spend less time developping these tools. So before I spend too much time looking for the perfect toolkit, I would appreciate your opinions and experiences on that kind of matter.
Disclaimer : I'm not looking for advices on how MVC is the way to go and how CodeIgniter/Zend/WhatEver is the framework I should use. My question is not about the frameworks or the design patterns I should build my applications upon. My question is about using the right tool to make simple web-applications development faster, and their code even more re-usable.
Is there an awesome web-application RAD tool I don't know about ?
Which toolkit do you use for simple but form-heavy web applications ?
Are there good, light, non-bloated, reliable toolkits written in PHP ?
Thanks in advance !
Edit : Not getting much feedback so far :/ I'm aware that my question is very broad, but I'm sure lots of people work on the same kind of projects I'm talking about, and have improved their productivity by using toolkits such as GWT, Wicket and such. Tell me about it, please :)
September 28 edit : Thanks everyone for the interesting answers. What I'm looking for is not covered by any framework I could try in the past months. PHP is probably not the best language to use for my vision of RAD, but since it's a language I know very well, and since I don't want to spend too much time learning Python as well as I know PHP (for the moment), I decided to do it by myself. Everytime I have a specific need for a widget, I code it in the most re-usable way...so far so good :)
I might open-source that toolkit at some point, and will let you guys know.
The PHP project I've been working on the past few years is a lot like that. Heavy on forms, heavy on server-side logic, but lots of redundant form coding. Too make matters worse, it wasn't all forms, sometimes we actually need to do fancy layout (even just doing a tree control is a pain without a library), and the home-grown nature of the UI meant that I would be battling browser quirks from start to finish.
So, I got to thinking about what a better architecture would be. We needed very powerful form controls, rich grids, rich trees, advanced layout, and we needed to migrate to that gradually. None of the PHP frameworks seemed to fit. Then I took a step back and realized that it didn't have to be PHP, it could be javascript also. We already had a requirement on javascript, so it was fine to go the distance with it. First I looked at the smaller libraries, jquery, prototype, but it became obvious that they didn't do enough. So I looked at Dojo, ExtJS, YUI, all the really heavy javascript toolkits, and settled on ExtJS as having the best controls.
We had a UI structure that relied heavily on iframes, a navigation frame on the outside, application frames inside that, feature frames inside that, and so on. What we ended up with is we're migrating those from the outside in. It's all becoming ExtJS, and it's all living in the same page. The server-side code is kept the same, but it's migrated into web services. At the same time we've integrated zend framework, and are porting some of the stuff you really shouldn't do home-grown to it, like authentication and translation.
The end goal is being able to write just the business logic without having to mess with all the boilerplate. It's too early to know if my approach will pan out, but I think my message would be to be critical towards your code base and decide which parts you want to keep writing yourself, and which parts you want to outsource to a library.
Please try http://agiletoolkit.org/. I think it's what you need. Results with minimum time/code.
At the moment I'm using a solid forms class to render HTML forms with client- and server-side validation, and a database class to write the SQL. I can get a CRUD section of my admin console up in about 10 lines of code. I wrote those classes myself so I can re-use them in all my projects. Hopefully that gives you some ideas?
I would stay away from WYSIWYG tools personally.
I'm testing NuBuilder.com, I discovered it does
within days, at first looks promising. If you take a look
please send me your feedbacks!
Maybe adopt or create an "app-based" infrastructure like Django's? In Django's case, the community has created some powerful baselines like Pinax.
I think Symfony may be the way to go because, like your apps:
it's written in PHP
ORM based on Propel/doctrine (so you can use MySQL, Postgres or SQLite)
Architecture and patterns used will help you with complex applicatons
You'll find tools helping you to debug, document, and test your application
Forms creation, validation, l10n & i18n, testing, AJAX is easy (forms within symfony explained here, check it out)
prototyping you webpages while developing your application is easy
Other tools/practices implemented in the symfony framework that will make your life easy:
full configuration using YAML syntax (easy to read and understand)
the scaffolding feature generates for you a simple CRUD interface for editing your data.
you don't have to worry about coding form sanitization, security, caching, ACL; configuration is needed, but no heavy coding.
The only downside, you need to read some documentation to understand "the symfony way of doing things". But hey, a good framework is 20% code and 80% good practices.
My point is, even if you don't want to use Symfony for your project, you should check its features and built-in tools, because that's the kind of tools you want for your project.
I started using Django and it has very helpful features, esp. the built-in admin (for general CRUD stuff) and really great form-handling code & widget rendering. I'd suggest taking a look, even if you don't plan on using python, just to get an idea.
You mentioned that you don't want advice on "Use X framework", since this is more about RAD & UI/forms than system architecture. But I've found that a good framework helps just as much with the UI & forms side of things as it does the architecture. That means that while frameworks are great for big projects, they're also very helpful in reducing code redundancy. I started creating my own helper functions in PHP that I would copy from app to app that would automatically render an HTML form based on a few parameters. Even after a lot of work, this was very rudimentary compared to what Django offers, and basically I was writing my own framework.
I think you may be looking for a GUI-style tool to help, but you might find that a good PHP framework is more helpful in this case. At the very least, have you tried creating your own helper libraries? I know those helped me a lot.
Simple Example:
function renderInput($name, $value="") {
print "<input type=\"input\" name=\"" . htmlentities($name) . "\" value=\"" . htmlentities($value) . "\" >";
}
function renderRadios($name, $value="", $choices=array()) {
for ($choices as $cvalue) {
print "<input type=\"checkbox\" name=\"" . htmlentities($name) . "\" value=\"" . htmlentities($cvalue) . "\" " . ($cvalue == $value ? "checked" : "") . ">";
}
}
And build up from there. Stupid things like this tend to make form creation just that much faster. A good framework will blow this out of the water. And I'm sure the above has some typos, I haven't done PHP in a little bit.
If this isn't what you're looking for, could you add some more to the question? I'm curious.
Although you're asking for PHP + MySql, I would like to recommend you to give a try to the OutSystems Agile Platform.
You can create a simple CRUD app in less that 10 minutes and grow it as you go to a more complex system.
Download the Community Edition for free at www.outsystems.com.
Best,
Not sure but looks like Tibco General Interface (http://www.generalinterface.org ) is what your looking for.
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In my analysis of the newer web platforms/applications, such as Drupal, Wordpress, and Salesforce, many of them create their software based on the concept of modularization: Where developers can create new extensions and applications without needing to change code in the "core" system maintained by the lead developers. In particular, I know Drupal uses a "hook" system, but I don't know much about the engine or design that implements it.
If you were to go down a path of creating an application and you wanted a system that allowed for modularization, where do you start? Is this a particular design pattern that everyone knows about? Is there a handbook that this paradigm tends to subscribe to? Are their any websites that discuss this type of development from the ground-up?
I know some people point directly to OOP, but that doesn't seem to be the same thing, entirely.
This particular system I'm planning leans more towards something like Salesforce, but it is not a CRM system.
For the sake of the question, please ignore the Buy vs. Build argument, as that consideration is already in the works. Right now, I'm researching the build aspect.
There are two ways to go around here, which one to take depends on how will your software behave.
One way is the plugin route, where people can install new code into the application modifying the relevant aspects. This route demands your application is installable and not only offered as a service (or else that you install and review code sent in by third parties, a nightmare).
The other way is to offer an API, which can be called by the relevant parties and make the application transfer control to code located elsewhere (a la Facebook apps) or make the application to do as the API commands enable the developer (a la Google Maps).
Even though the mechanisms vary and how to actually implement them differ, you have to, in any case, define
What freedom will I let the users have?
What services will I offer for programmers to customize the application?
and the most important thing:
How to enable this in my code while remaining secure and robust. This is usually done by sandboxing the code, validating inputs and potentially offering limited capabilities to the users.
In this context, hooks are predefined places in the code that call all the registered plugins' hook function, if defined, modifying the standard behavior of the application. For example, if you have a function that renders a background you can have
function renderBackground() {
foreach (Plugin p in getRegisteredPlugins()) {
if (p.rendersBackground) p.renderBackground();
}
//Standard background code if nothing got executed (or it still runs,
//according to needs)
}
In this case you have the 'renderBackground' hook that plugins can implement to change the background.
In an API way, the user application would call your service to get the background rendered
//other code
Background b = Salesforce2.AjaxRequest('getBackground',RGB(255,10,0));
//the app now has the result of calling you
This is all also related to the Hollywood principle, which is a good thing to apply, but sometimes it's just not practical.
The Plugin pattern from P of EAA is probably what you are after. Create a public interface for your service to which plugins (modules) can integrate to ad-hoc at runtime.
This is called a component architecture. It's really quite a big area, but some of the key important things here are:
composition of components (container components can contain any other component)
for example a grid should be able to contain other grids, or any other components
programming by interface (components are interacted with through known interfaces)
for example a view system that might ask a component to render itself (say in HTML, or it might be passed a render area and ask the view to draw into it directly
extensive use of dynamic registries (when a plugin is loaded, it registers itself with the appropriate registries)
a system for passing events to components (such as mouse clicks, cursor enter etc)
a notification
user management
and much much more!
If you're hosting the application, publish (and dogfood) a RESTful API.
If you're distributing software, look at OSGi.
Here's a small video that at least will give you some hints; the Lego Process [less than 2 minutes long]
There's also a complete recipe for how to create your own framework based extensively on Modularization...
The most important key element to make modularized software is to remember that it's purely [mostly] a matter of how loosely coupled you can create your systems. The more loosely coupled, the easier it is to modularize...