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I've heard about data driven design and have been researching about it for a while. So, I've read several articles to get the concepts.
One of the article is Data Driven Design written by Kyle Wilson. As he described, it seems to me that the application code (i.e. the code for controlling resources such as memory, network...) and the game logic code should be separated, and the game logic code should be driven by external data sources. At this point, I can imagine that the developer would write some sort of game editor which accepts external data about in-game objects (such as character information, weapon information, map information...). The scenario design will be scripted by custom language/tool written by programmer to let the game designer create interaction between in game objects. The game designer will either use an existing/custom scripting language to write script for the game, or drag and drop tool to create game world. Example of tool approach I can think of is World Editor, which usually packaged along with Bliizard's games.
However, another article is against the use of Data Driven Design, The Case Against Data Driven Design. The author suggests to not let the game design driven by data, because it would take more time to develop a game, since the game designer has the burden of programming. Instead, there will be a game programmer to program the game freely from the sketch design, and is verified by the game designer after the game programming is finished. He calls this is programmer driven. What I think of this method is similar to the way I used to do: The game logic is the application itself, as apposed to the above idea, the application is the game editor, and the actual game is designed based on the tool.
To me, the first method seems to be more reasonable, since game components can be reused for many projects. With the second method which opposes data driven design, the game code belongs to that game only. This is why I think Warcraft has so many game genres in it, such as the original Warcraft and various custom maps, and one of the most famous: DOTA which actually defines a new genre. For this reason, I heard people call the World Editor is the game engine. Is this true how a game engine should be?
So, after all of this, I just want to verify that is there any flaw in my understanding about these ideas (data driven, programmer drive, scripting etc...)?
There will be different opinions, people prefer different approaches. There isn't a right one. You understand the approaches correct.
My defenition for Game Engine will be:
- Runtime library with different managers like you saying resources, memory, networking
- Tools (Editor, converters, packaging tools, etc.)
On top of the engine you can write applications or games. In some engines these are called MODs but I don't like this definition.
A good way to think of data driver approach is to imagine your engine being the executable project (it doesn't have to be but just bear with me). Then you can write some extra library that loads dynamically like plugin and then you pass to it some configuration. It can be a big package of scripts, sounds, models, textures. It can be a small script or some fixed folder structure with assets. It doesn't matter what it is the important thing here is that it's swappable. This is your data that the engine works with.
A programming driven approach is when you have your final application/game being the executable. Then you can still use engine a core library of managers, you can use middleware. Different levels can be loaded from resources. But the scope of the game will be probably hardcoded in this application.
None of the above has to be the way I suggest. You can mix and match as much as you want from both approaches as long as it fits your needs. The data driven approach by default has to take more time to build a game with. But at the end you should have more reusable software. Also usually games are very design driven. Programmers we like to make everything to be logic, physically correct, etc. but usually it doesn't make fun game. Designers usually want to iterate, try different mechanics, tweak some properties, etc. That is a lot of extra work for a programmer if you are using programming approach.
You should weight the pros and cons depending of your needs and time budget.
Edit:
Designers and programmers will be needed in any of the possible approaches. There might be a slight offset in work distribution as percentage, but it won't be a lot.
The biggest benefit of data driven engine is once it is up and running, which takes a tremendous effort, it will be faster and more reliable to work with it. It should be faster to make changes since no recompile is needed. Data bugs usually can be intercepted much better and avoid crashing or restarting the application.
Probably the biggest problem with data driven engine is that all the good things about it come to a price. Usually there is performance and memory footprint hit.
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I have recently heard about Magic programming language from several sources and didn't recall ever hearing about it before. It was mentioned that it is a programming language from Israel.
I did some googling and couldn't find much information about it. I couldn't find any code examples, and wikipedia didn't have any information on it either.
I think this is the site for it http://www.magicsoftware.com/en/products/?catID=70 though I am not sure, as it mentions uniPaaS instead of magic. However other material on the site indicates that this is the new name for it.
I was interested in learning more about it from it's practitioners, rather than the company. I saw several claims on the internet that it provided really fast application development, similar to claims made by RoR proponents when it came out.
How does it compare to VB?
Is it still a better RAD tool than current .net or mvc frameworks like django, ror ...etc?
How hard is it to learn?
If you can post some sample code it would be most helpful as well.
Could this site be it? Though it links back to the page above.
You're right my friend, Magic is the original name of the "programming language", nowadays is called UniPaaS (Uni Platform as a Service), I use it to develop some business application. Maybe is the fastest way to create an applications(data manipulation), you can create apps in just a few days, but like everything in life has its own drawbacks:
it's very weird so that makes it
difficult to learn.
you do not have all the control of what's happening in the background
and you have to pay a lot for licensing (servers,clients, etc)
If you are interested in learning this, you can download a "free" version of the software that only works with sqlite databases called UniPaaS Jet.
Magic Language is as it’s called today uniPaaS, it used to be Magic than eDeveloper and now uniPaaS as PachinSV menchend before.
uniPaaS is an application platform enabling enterprises, independent software vendors (ISVs) and system integrators (SIs) to more successfully build and deploy business applications.
You can download the free version of uniPaaS Jet here: http://web.magicsoftware.com/unipaas-jet-download,
try it yourself and see how easy it is to use.
Magic technology as you descried is a Magic Software Enterprises tool (uniPaaS), you can find more information on:
official website: www.magicsoftware.com/en/products/?catID=70&pageID=55
uniPaaS Jet developer group on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/unipaasJet/
Magic developer zone: devnet.magicsoftware.com/en/unipaas
Let me know if you find the information helpful
Bob
As PachinSV explained, there is a RAD once called Magic, then eDeveloper, now UniPaaS. This RAD is dedicated for database applications. Programming in this RAD does not look like anything else I know, you mostly don't write code as with usual languages, but it is nearly impossible to explain just with words. The applications are interpreted, not compiled.
As PachinSV said, when developing, you must follow UniPaaS' way of doing things. This is probably why so many people never manage to use Magic properly: if you thought like Magic before learning about it, then you will adapt to it easily; but if you have a long and successful experience using other database development tools, then often the Magic paradigm will never become natural to you. The learning curve is quite steep, you must learn a lot of things before being able to write a little application.
Previous versions stored the "code" inside a database table. The last version, UniPaas stores the code in xml files. I could send you an example, if PachinSV does not answer you before. But the files are pretty big: the smallest xml file I have in a test app is 4000 bytes, and any application is made of at least 11 files, an empty application is 7600 bytes. You must also understand that developers never use those files (they are undocumented AFAIK), they are only the storage format used internally by UniPaaS. The only way to use them is to set them up as a UniPaaS application.
I'm still an active MAGIC Developer... This is the old name used and its a completely different paradigm like some of you mentioned. I've been developing it from Magic version 8.x to eDeveloper 9.x to 10.x then renamed to UniPAAS.
The newer version is much easier to use and it is still very RAD in the sense that there is little or no code you write... a lot of the common programming tasks like IO, SQL command...etc is handled by the tool and is transparent ( so even less code to write since we use it in almost all types of applications)... Its mostly an Enterprise tool... you wouldnt use it for small application...
You can download the free version to learn the paradigm... but the enterprise licenses are expensive.. you need both the development tool and the runtime license if you want to deploy... so it can be costly for small scale projects...
I enjoy it personally, especially when you have to do quick proof of concepts or a quick data migration or porting onto any db platform and bridging any existing system through a wide range of gateways they provide with the licensed version.. It is up to date with the commonly used web technology out there...like SOAP, RIA ...
It's more popular in Europe... The HQ in the States is in Irvine... we used to have 2 branches in Canada but it closed down in 2001 .... Visit the Magic User Group on Yahoo... Its a very active forum with lots of cool people who will help you out in your quest...
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/magicu-l/
I Programmed with Magic for 6 years and found it to be a amazingly fast tool, easy to understand if you are a competent database programmmer because all operations are really about data manipulation. It is certainly a niche area develop in and because of this jobs are few and far between. As it is interpreted there are really no bugs to make. It will work with many databases/connections simultaneously but there is a big memory and processing hit.
Drawbacks :
Little control over communications between machines and devices
No mobile API as yet
Niche area so few skilled practitioners or companies willing to invest.
Good Points :
You can say you are a Magician; you can impress people with uber fast apps development (really)
It is easy to understand if you don't have a PHD in Maths
zero programming "bugs" can creep in. What you do is what you get.
Developed in The original Magic PC referred to by several of the above folks.
It is exactly this: FAST, FAST, but expensive and rigid in what it will allow you to do. It works on a tick tack toe like matrix. Dropping in commands into the various sections determines when they are run. The middle column is run indefinitely until you break the cycle. It is like a do Until loop. If you have to do an item once you put it into this infinite loop and end it after one cycle.
The first column procedures are run first, ONCE, before the infinite middle column is run. The 3rd column of commands is run after the infinite cycle, once. It is very efficient and logical once you get over the idea of an infinite loop.
Types can be specified and an associated program to present the type. Then everywhere the type is used all the settings automatically kick in. I like especially that one can write the program and 5 months later change the name of a variable and it is carried throughout the program. In fact the program does not use your name for anything. The internal name of any and all variables is hidden to the end user, so of course it is not a problem to change a name. It takes a minute to write an input program for any table. It takes a minute to write an export/import program for all the data files in the database.
Attaching to a type of database like Btrieve or SQL independent of the program itself.
I stopped using the language because they demand more for the runtime engine than I could charge for the programs I wished to run with it. Bill Gates went the opposite direction. VB is superior in control and being able to drop `10 datagridviews onto the same screen, but development is 10 times slower.
It's niche then is PROOF of concept for a program in a big company or conversion, importing, exporting for a development company. It is good for $25k programs that are database heavy and not going mobile.
uniPaaS, Magic PC
I did some Magic work around 1993. It was a DOS based 4GL that came from Israel. Haven't seen it since.
How does it compare to VB?
It doesn't.
Is it still a better RAD tool than current .net or mvc frameworks like django, ror ...etc?
If you mean "is it more Rapid", then yes, otherwise no.
How hard is it to learn?
About as hard as learning MS Access.
Coincidentally, if you want to get an idea of what it is and how it works, I've found that comparing it to MS Access is handy. It works in much the same way from a user's or developer's perspective. Obviously what happens in the background is vastly different, but if you've ever developed a form in design view in Access, Magic will seem very familiar.
Google tells me there's also MAGIC/L. All I could find about it was this blurb:
A procedural language written in
Forth. Originally ran on Z80's under
CP/M and later available for IBM-PCs
and Sun 3s.
The only Magic programming language that I know about is one used by a company called Meditech. It's a proprietary language derived from MUMPS.
The language is truly miserable - here's a sample.
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In short I'm creating a 2D mmorpg and unlike my last "mmo" I started developing I want to make sure that this one will scale well and work well when I want to add new in-game features or modify existing ones.
With my last attempt with an avatar chat within the first few thousand lines of code and just getting basic features added into the game I seen my code quality lowering and my ability to add new features or modify old ones was getting lower too as I added more features in. It turned into one big mess that some how ran, lol.
This time I really need to buckle down and find a design that will allow me to create a game framework that will be easy to add and remove features (aka things like playing mini-games within my world or a mail system or buddy list or a new public area with interactive items).
I'm thinking that maybe a component based approach MIGHT be what I'm looking for but I'm really not sure. I have read documents on mmorpg design and 2d game engine architecture but nothing really explained a way of designing a game framework that will basically let me "plug-in" new features into the main game.
Hope someone understands what I mean, any help is appreciated.
If you search for component-based systems within games, you will find something quite different to what you are actually asking for. And how best to do this is far from agreed upon just yet, anyway. So I wouldn't recommend doing that. What you're really talking about is not really anything specific to games, never mind MMOs. It's just the ability to write maintainable code which allows for extension and improvements, which was a problem for business software long before games-as-a-service became so popular and important.
I'd say that addressing this problem comes primarily from two things. Firstly, you need a good specification and a resulting design that makes an attempt to understand future requirements, so that the systems you write now are more easily extended when you come to that. No plug-in architecture can work well without a good idea of what exactly you hope to be plugging in. I'm not saying you need to draw up a 100-page design doc, but at the very least you should be brainstorming your ideas and plans and looking for common ground there, so that when you're coding feature A, you are writing it with Future feature B in mind.
Secondly, you need good software engineering principles which mean that your code is easy to work with and use. eg. Read up on the SOLID principles, and take some time to understand why these 5 ideas are useful. Code that follows those rules is a lot easier to twist to whatever future needs you have.
There is a third way to improve your code, but which isn't going to help you just yet: experience. Your code gets better the more you write and the more you learn about coding. It's possible (well, likely) that with an MMO you are biting off a lot more than you can chew. Even teams of qualified professionals end up with unmaintainable messes of code when attempting projects of that magnitude, so it's no surprise that you would, too. But they have messes of code that they managed to see to completion, and often that's what it's about, not about stopping and redesigning whenever the going gets tough.
Yes, I got what you want...
Basically, you will have to use classic OOP design, the same one that business software coders use...
You will first have to lay out the basic engine, that engine should have a "module loader" or a common OOP-style interface, then you either code modules to be loaded (like, as .dlls) or you code directly within your source code, using that mentioned OOP-style interface, and NEVER, EVER allow a module to depend on each other...
The communication, even inside your code, should be ALWAYS using a interface, never put "public" vars in your modules and use it somewhere else, otherwise you will end with a awfull and messy code.
But if you do it properly, you can do some really cool stuff (I for example, changed the entire game library (API that access video, mouse, keyboard, audio...) of my game, in the middle of development... I just needed to recode one file, that was the one that made the interface between logic, and game library...)
What you're thinking about is exactly what this article describes. It's a lovely way to build games as I have blogged about, and the article is an excellent resource to get your started.
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I work at a web development shop so naturally we deal with user profiles. When dealing with one of our sites I noticed that there was no 'User' class, which struck me as odd since we certainly have users. Instead the site relies on interacting with DataRows (this is C#) returned through static methods with little to no instantiation. I asked my boss about creating a class for users and his response was that since the objects have to be rebuilt so much its often not worth it.
I am relatively new to web development and it does seem like a bit of a waste to have to instantiate objects each time the page is rebuilt but on the other hand I've always found object oriented programming to be useful. So I'm curious for some opinions, how much do you guys use OOP in web development?
The only time I don't use OOP is when:
I'm creating a simple project to test some logic. This usually leads to creating the right classes...
I'm using Classic ASP (been awhile, thank god).
I'm not programming.
edit
3+ years after posting the above; I'm appending a bit to my answer.
OOP is great and allows us a tremendous amount of flexibility for having multiple systems interacting with the same data / logic. However, there is certainly a situation in which you wouldn't want to bother loading up a lot of objects.. Namely, when you are simply pulling data for tabular display.
Querying a database and getting a simple record set back that is immediately emitted to the browser usually doesn't need OOP involved. As a matter of fact you might want to sidestep OOP completely as tabular data usually involves a roll up of other information (sums of child records) and you normally don't want to pull more data from the database than what you are actually using. ie. if you are only showing the name and email you probably don't want to grab the user name as that is just wasted cycles.
Now, putting information into a DB usually involves making sure that certain business logic is followed. For example that the username follows certain rules. In those situations leveraging an OOP style keeps things a bit more encapsulated and easily transferred between systems.
So, looking at the specific example: I wouldn't bother with more than handing a datatable to a repeater when pulling data; but I would have a user class for when I'm going to create a new one or operate on that user to make sure the business rules are properly followed.
One question: does the data need to be coupled with function/method calls? If not, OOP is not necessary.
Your best approach might be to find an empty whiteboard, create a high level model using Object Oriented Design, then with Functional Design, then with Procedural. You might surprise yourself (and others) with the results. The same language can be used in vastly different ways depending on the project. As mentioned by #wj. OOP is just a paradigm, don't be afraid to step outside of your comfort zone and design using a different paradigm.
Taking time to design using different paradigms will also help you when you approach your boss to discuss why you should or should not use the current paradigm. Most bosses will appreciate that you spent the time to research before approaching them with an idea -- this isn't to say they'll accept your idea, but being knowledgable going in will potentially get you a few extra minutes of his/her attention.
IMHO (don't take this personally), "Object Oriented Programming" has fallen with the likes of "Web 2.0" -- a buzzword of sorts, which is unfortunate; you now see developers forcing OOP where it would be better suited to use FP or PP.
The best professional advice I can give is to design (high level at first, then dive down) in multiple paradigms (do your best not to be biased -- keep an open mind) and decide which one best addresses the way your application works. In my 15 years experience, 75+% of the time I find OOP to be unnecessary, although my current project is strictly OOP.
A more important/relevant question would be, "Does Object Oriented Design have a place in my current web development?"
Although objects make it easier for some programmers to develop, I've read the perfect example of how to build an entire website without OOP. Not once ounce. Check out the last page in a 20 page series entitled Clean PHP:
http://okmaya.com/clean-php/clean-php-step-20/
Super easy to follow, clean way of building an entire website. No confusing OOP, no super nested folder, no crazy spaghetti code to follow for hours... Just simple, clean, and well laid out functions that do EVERYTHING you need, without the use of OOP. And this example has everything from login/registration credentials, an admin section (CMS), even database fixtures to get you started, a search function that uses mapquest API to do zip code / lat-long lookups... I mean it has EVERYTHING for a core project, or website.
Why bother with OOP? Clean, and properly structured procedural code is great!
On the topic of OOP. I remember another fad that everyone thought it was cool, and everyone did it, but then found out that smoking gave you a whole bunch of problems.
Stick to the simple, stick to what you know. Be an expert in PHP and you never have to depend on a framework again. Don't get me started with OOP MVC Frameworks. Interpreted languages for the web were never meant to be OOP. OOP just adds another layer of complexity. Stop being lazy. Use your PHP, and learn how to freakin program!
On the other hand, I can see how making games on a console can be difficult without OOP. But then again, it's apples an oranges. Console games keep their objects in memory until the game exits, or object is destroyed from within game. Think about it... Why do they have a loading bar in front of every level? Now, imagine a web page that has to show you a loading bar every time it loads because it has to create objects from a database. SLLOOOOOOWWWWW central! And once you navigate away from this page, you have to start all over again.
Web pages are applications within themselves. It's like rebuilding your drag racer each time you go to the starting line, only to take it apart at the finish line. WTFridge? Seriously? Hey, super geniuses who think OOP is sooo cool... Keep your damn OOP out of my websites!
Just saying, this is from my 10+ years experience with web development, you know when we used to code pages in HTML, one by one?
OOP is nothing more than a programming paradigm !! but his importance is that hi is THE actual paradigm in use implying that all modern knowledge and best practices in software engineering will be expressed following this style of programming ...
A good example in your case (web development) is the Core J2EE Patterns.
(source: sun.com)
Of course it does. You (and more so your boss) say "rebuilding" like it's a huge chore.
What you mean by "rebuilding" is running the program. Tell your boss that OOP in general is stupid because even in a desktop environment every time somebody runs a piece of software the objects need to be rebuilt so it's not even worth it.
Boss's comment is useless. The .net framework consists of objects and nothing else. A "response" is an object, even in "classic ASP" - why would people have implemented it if that were resource ineffective?
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I am learning to use LabVIEW as part of my honours project, and was wondering what benefits the graphical programming language has over a textual one?
To me, the benefit of LabVIEW is not in graphical vs. textual.
It's dataflow vs. imperative.
Dataflow programming lends itself to concurrency, because your execution is modeled as black boxes which execute when their inputs are valid, whose inputs / outputs are wired together. This as opposed to implicit state with a list of instructions on how to modify it. (Loosely paraphrasing 'kipedia, the article linked above is better.)
Each black box can run on a separate core/processor/node, which gives you, effectively, free concurrency if you organize your program the dataflow way.
Unfortunately (and this is a crippling downside to dataflow programming in general) the best way to visualize and edit dataflow programs is graphical, not textual. This makes using tools such as revision control and code generators very difficult.
The question is: Do the pros of dataflow outweigh the cons, for you and your project?
One of the main advantages to graphical programming with LabVIEW is that the source code is very similar to circuit diagrams, so it's a very easy language for electrical/electronics engineers to pick up. This is one of the reasons that LabVIEW has become so popular in the data acquisition and automation fields, where EEs are plentiful.
Another advantage that I found was raw speed of development. You assemble your GUIs from a palette of available front panel controls, very similar to how you do it in Visual Studio. The source code is written in a similar manner, with many pre-defined components that you can drop in from menus and wire together.
A third advantage is compatibility with hardware. National Instruments main business is data acquisition hardware, and they go to great lengths to make sure all of their products can communicate with LabVIEW software straight out of the box. Many other hardware vendors in the data acquisition and automation control industry are doing the same.
Its all about the equipment drivers and user capabilities. NI (Labview) has a well supported set of lab equipment drivers that are easily interfaced. A test operator (not a developer) needs a gui with a big green/red pass/fail button. I've implemented complicated automation via python in cygwin. A Labview developer was able to invoke the cygwin/python system and data mine the log files. So you can do both. The python system is portable, maintainable, extensible, usable and best of all, free.
I've used labview before for calculating parameters to tune an nMRI machine. They exist because in theory it is easier for someone with little programming language experience create a program. The control flow and decision structures can be arranged graphically and they can type in their formula's where they want.
For professors and lab assistants...helpful.
For real software developers...it would be easier to write in another language.
I've used LabView in the past, and for data acquisition, virtual instrumentation, etc - there is nothing better. The last time I used it was 10 years ago, and nothing I've seen since has matched where it was in the mid 90s.
Some advantages of LabVIEW in my view are:
The built-in user interface components such as buttons, graphs etc literally require no programming whatever; you just place them on the front panel and the data terminals appear on the block diagram.
There is a large library of drivers for data acquisition hardware and test instruments. If your task is basically about getting data to and from these and putting a user interface on it then you can achieve it with almost no programming.
Parallel execution of multiple tasks is handled automatically - place two independent loops on the diagram and they will execute simultaneously. This is often a requirement in data acquisition and control applications.
Many people, including 'real software developers', feel that the graphical paradigm suits the way they think and visualise their software better than the textual one. There are undoubtedly things that text languages are better for than LabVIEW (covered in another discussion on this site) but where LabVIEW is suitable it's very good at getting the job done.
To me it comes down to what you are comfortable with, if you're comfortable in text based languages, you'll likely find that Labview just introduces another learning curve. Unless you have a specific goal to learn and use Labview I see no point for your project.
On the other hand, if you aren't particularly comfortable in text-based languages, I tend to have the opinion that Labview is easier to pick up and learn, particularly for non software engineers.
I use text based languages for test engineering as well as Labview and TestStand quite often and for me it's more about who else will use my software than it is about me. Some companies have several Labview trained individuals and others prefer to write in text based languages. Training for another language can be very costly on a company-wide scale and it changes the hiring requirements for positions within a company so some companies are virtually 'locked-in' to one paradigm or the other. I would say your best bet if you intend to work in the industry is to be versed in both, that way you are flexible. If that's the case and you have the time to learn either, I'd say work in the one you're least comfortable with and expand your breadth of knowledge, that's what school is for right?
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Definition:
CRUD - Create, Read, Update, Delete; The four basic functions of persistent storage. In the context of this question, specifically related to business applications.
I'll be honest, my goal when I began programming did not include being a lifetime CRUD programmer. Financial data is only so interesting for so long. And to me, that seems like the majority of programming gigs.
I'm still fairly fresh out of school, so any experience is still very beneficial, but eventually I want to move to something "less CRUD like." Currently, I have my eye on some machine control type work. However, I'm just not sure how to go in that direction.
So I want to get a feel for what other developers think about the topic.
Do you enjoy CRUD and why?
What have your experiences in CRUD been like?
How did you move from CRUD to non-CRUD work?
If you've moved, what do you like and hate?
If you've moved, what skills benefited/hastened the transition?
Edit:
I'm approaching CRUD with the attitude that I want to solve problems, not re-create the same form with different fields for a dozen different tables.
I don't think that there's really anyone who enjoys doing CRUD (well at least anyone sane). It's the most tedious part of web programming. My advice is to find or write a framework to automate this for you.
evolutility
django admin panel and django forms
However, if that's the majority of your work, you definitely should consider changing jobs.
Get a different job. Seriously, not all software development is developing business applications. Developing shipping software would make you much happier, I think. Try to find a job at a software company, and write some stuff that's going to ship to customers. Also, if you want to get into some of the low level hardware-style stuff, just start hacking away on some basic microcontrollers so you have at least some background with that.
Develop a framework to make CRUD creation easy in your line of work. Once you have done that, use the free time to improve it in terms of Usability, Security, Performance etc. That should keep your work interesting for a while.
I agree that CRUD's pretty boring. But I don't think it's the fact that it's financial data that makes it so. Perhaps you'd find that financial data a lot more interesting if, for example, it was streaming into a neural net based expert system you'd written to work out how best to invest it?
There's definitely an awful lot more to programming than CRUD. Find an aspect that interests you, and pursue it.
I am curious that no one mention task-based UI and CQRS here.
In fact, to answer your questions :
I don't enjoy CRUD...why ? see the following answers to your question
My experience of CRUD is that's a pain to write CRUD (full stack frameworks are a workaround at best I think), and often a pain for users as well
I move to non-CRUD work when I understand that building software is about giving a powerful tool for users, not a database editor with some business rules
I like to build software less coupled to full stack framework (Symfony2, ASP.NET & cie...), more fully object oriented, but I am more and more annoyed by RDBMS CRUD orientation, and more and more attracted by EventStore (Event Sourcing)
Let's get inspired by task based UI, CQRS and Event Sourcing (search Google, I do not have enough reputation to add more links...) => all together
However, I would like to be less opinionated to finish : there are some points that will not let you get out of CRUD. Some users love CRUD, they feel like in Excel...and also there are probably some applications for which CRUD fulfill all the needs...
CRUD - yes in the end we are storing, reading and updating data. But so what? That is just one part of the equation, at least in my world.
In business, data is essential, but it is the business logic and the decisions made from that data that is important. I have found it very rewarding to take raw data and use it to help business make decisions. We do that with business logic in our code, not to mention the endless ways of presenting that data in the presentation layer.
Yes in the end CRUD is involved, but it is much more than that, no?
Just my opinion.
Having a wide range of experience, my solution is to create my perfect product and start a business around it. I'm facing all sorts of interesting challenges, such as how to stream realtime data from an embedded device to a browser. This stuff gets my programming juices flowing and I have a list of important, fun features to add.
Dream up your perfect product domain, find some people who could benefit and ask them what problems they have. Once you pick up a common theme that interests you (mine was automation and power monitoring) start hacking. Of course for me it helps that my father has run the electronics company Technman for the last 30 years, and wants to create this product with me.
First, have you gone through most of what there is to know about persistent storage? It's worth figuring out how to practically apply database theory, etc. in your current job. Once you've been doing it for a few years and have it all figured out you should definitely think about expanding your horizons. I'd agree with you - unless you're building the DBMS itself - I find that the persistent storage part of the job gets to be fairly boring.
One of the best ways to get a job in a new area is to take a prototype of something relevant to the job to demonstrate at an interview. This is an incredibly powerful statement to make.
Embedded software is really my thing, but the market for this is slowly shrinking in North America and moving to the developing world, and it's a fairly specialized area to get started in.
It seems to me that the application space is still growing. Consider iPhone, J2ME, or Windows Mobile development for example. You can learn to do these on your own with a relatively small investment in equipment.
If you're not already doing this, there's also the web application space. Application server platforms like JBOSS and Glassfish are free and fairly easy to learn. Plus they provide a link back to the CRUD which you already know.
Yes, a lot of business software is CRUD. I used to work on that.
In machine control, part of that can be CRUD too. For example, logging sensor data and reporting it somewhere. Basically CRUD.
But I will admit - in machine control, it's mostly non-CRUD. You would probably enjoy doing something that actually makes an assembly line move, or builds cars, or makes motors spin at a certain speed. I know I do. At a financial institution, it's literally just numbers. Nothing "real" like a motor or a car.
Just about every program is going to have to create, read, update and delete some sort of data. In some systems this presents its' own challenges.
However most of the time reading and writing to databases is fairly easy (which is why they make databases). It is what you do with the data once you have it which is interesting, and generally unique to a business, and keeps you employed.
This article I agree with, basically a lot of programming is boring.
However if you are good and determined enough you will eventually get to do something interesting.
Find or write a way to do the CRUD portions of the applications faster. Do so, tell your manager you are done with your assigned tasks (make sure they ARE done; tested, documented, etc.), and ask what you should do next.
Just take a look to Django and move on to the interesting coding!!!
(Or RoR, or Grails, or whichever suit best to you, but CRUDS shouldn't be still being coded by hand from scratch)
Modern frameworks can do all the crud for you. Checkout the standalone GORM from the GRAILS project.
When I was an undergraduate, I changed my major from Electrical Engineering to Computer Science because I wanted to write video games. Later on, when I started working on business applications for real money, I learned that I simply enjoy solving problems with code.
You may be in the wrong profession.
In this economy, it might be hard for you to just get another job, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Find some type of work you think you would enjoy, go learn it and look for job opportunities. It doesn't hurt to make some phone calls and go on a few interviews even if you think you're unlikely to get the job. Even better, you could figure out a way to start your own company.
Get into web-dev? Seriously the level of basic crud I have to do building web-apps is pretty low, even when there's a DB.
For CRUD of windows FORM based applications developed in c# .net
RocketFramework is the answer