I read up on database structuring and normalization and decided to remodel the database behind my learning thingie to reduce redundancy.
I have different types of entries that can be learned. Gap texts/cloze tests (one text, many gaps) and simple known-unknown (one question, one answer) types.
Now I'm in a bit of a pickle:
gaps need exactly the same columns in the user table as question-answer types
but they need less columns than question-answer types (all that info is in the clozetests table)
I'm wishing for a "magic" foreign key that can point both to the gap and the terms table. Of course their ids would overlap though. I don't like having both a term_id and gap_id in the user_terms, that seems unelegant (but is the most elegant I can come up with after googling for a while, not knowing what name this pickle goes by).
I don't want a user_gaps analogue to user_terms, because then I'd be in the same pickle when it comes to the table user_terms_answers.
I put up this cardboard cutout collage of my schema. I didn't remove the stuff that isn't relevant for this question, but I can do that if anyone's confusion can be remedied like that. I think it looks super tidy already. Tidier than my mental concept of this at least.
Did I say any help would be greatly appreciated? Answerers might find themselves adulated for their wisdom.
Background story if you care, it's not really relevant to the question.
Before remodeling I had them all in one table (because I added the gap texts in a hurry), so that the gap texts were "normal" items without answers, while the gaps where items without questions. The application linked them together.
Edit
I added an answer after SO coughed up some helpful posts. I'm not yet 100% satisfied. I try to write views for common queries to this set up now and again I feel like I'll have to pull application logic for something that is database turf.
As mentioned in the comment, it is hard to answer without knowing the whole story. So, here is a story and a model to match. See if you can adapt this to you example.
School of (foreign) languages offers exams for several levels of language proficiency. The school maintains many pre-made tests for each level of each language (LangLevelTestNo).
Each test contains several (many) questions. Each question can be simple or of the close-text-type. Correct answers are stored for each simple question. Correct terms are stored for each gap of each close-text question.
Student can take an exam for a language level and is presented with one of the pre-made tests. For each student exam, the exam form is maintained which stores students answers for each question of the exam. Like a question, an answer may be of a simple of of a close-text-type.
After editing my question some Stackoverflow started relating the right questions to me.
I knew this was a common problem, but I really couldn't find it, just couldn't come up with the right search terms, I guess.
The following threads address similar problems and I'll try to apply that logic to my own design. They all propose adding a higher-level description for (in my case terms and gaps) like items. That makes sense and reflects the logic behind my application.
Relation Database Design
Foreign Key on multiple columns in one of several tables
Foreign Key refering to primary key across multiple tables
And this good person illustrates how to retrieve the data once it's broken up across tables. He also clues me to the keyword class table inheritance, so now I know what to google.
I'll post back with my edited schema once I've applied this. It does seem more elegant like this.
Edited schema
Related
I have a database table called interviews and the interviewer and the interviewee will both have to review how the interview went. The review will have similar fields (rating on a scale) but different questions.
Option 1 is to have them both in the same table and have it be 1..N back to the interview table (storing the ID of the writer and the one being reviewed as well). and only limiting which fields can be input at the application level.
Option 2 is to have two tables (one specifically for interviewer reviews and one specifically for interviewee reviews.
What is your opinion of the best way to model this?
Although this is dangerously close to being opinion-based, I have a comment that is too long for comments.
Handling surveys is rather complicated. Surveys change over time because questions are added, removed, and modified and answers are added, removed, and modified. And yet, people often want to use survey questions and track the results over time.
So, the data model for a survey is much more complicated than "one table" or "two tables". There are tables for surveys, questions, answers, and the relationships and values can change over time.
One big table is often a poor choice. If you index properly and write fine tuned queries, they are going to perform fine. Having multiple table can help you in multiple ways like
Access particular data ,
Easy queries etc
Two review tables. Those are TWO bona fide separate entities.
Here's the deal:
Designing a single table that "works" for two different purposes can be done but it's challenging: on the database level, and on your application.
But then... a few months later new requirements come in, that makes it more challenging. You'll need to implement weird logic to keep using one table. Code becomes convoluted, and testing becomes a nightmare.
And then, more changes come in. It becomes unmanageable. At some point you'll realise they were different things from the start that will EVOLVE differently.
Bottom line, it's better to keep them separate from the start to avoid huge cost in the future. Even if they have near-identical columns in the beginning.
I need store some review flags that relate to some entities. Each review flag can only related to a single entity property group. For example table Parents has a ParentsStatus flag and table Children has a set of ChildrenStatus flags.
In the current design proposal I have three tables:
ReviewTypes: stores the flags and the properties they relate to.
ReviewPositions: stores the values the flags can have.
Reviews: stores the transaction data, the actual reviews. It is like UsersToFlags: Flags in a database rows, best practices.
The problem is I am getting push back that there is no need to have the Reviews table and it would be better to just store this actual review data on each entity. For example add an extra column to Parents to hold ParentsStatus. They feel it is a simpler solution and separating the data out is just “overkill” for out scenario.
I don’t like this idea as this means that every time we want to add a new review flag we need to update the core entity table to hold that flag.
Space is not a problem.
Do people have any strong opinions?
Edit:
This comment applies to the three answers. The consensus is the relational approach is best but I think I need to read up a little more on the EAV model as from some very basic reading Best beginner resources for understanding the EAV database model? and its related links it does not appear to be super straightforward and I don't want to dig myself a hole. Thanks to wildplasser. I'll loop back once I read up a bit more.
Oh yes. Their idea is simpler, until you want to enhance it. Given the scheme they are proposing what if two reviews were need per entity. What if you wanted to attach other things such as notes/annotations. Once they find out how much of an inflatable dartboard their idea is, what do you have to move to a more useful one? Not to mention you need some way of identifying status fields, with fragile rubbish like Column name ends with "_Status", or you have to hard code them somewhere.
Doing it properly is not that much more work, it's not more complex, in fact in many ways it's simpler and it will cope with the invetible changes at far less cost.
normalization is always preferable to premature optimization.
One reason why I like the reviews table separate is that you can hold changes you may not want to display yet (as it hasn't been reviewed and approved) and still maintain the old dat until the new is approved. I don't know if your situation requires that.
To make future programming simpler for when you want to display the changes, you can write a view that shows the old and new data.
I'd like to hear some opinions or discussion on a matter of database design. Me and my colleagues are developing a complex application in finance industry that is being installed in several countries.
Our contractors wanted us to keep a single application for all the countries so we naturally face the difficulties with different workflows in every one of them and try to make the application adjustable to satisfy various needs.
The issue I've encountered today was a request from the head of the IT department from the contractors side that we keep the database model in terms of tables and columns they consist of.
For examlpe, we got a table with different risks and we needed to add a flag column IsSomething (BIT NOT NULL ...). It fully qualifies to exists within the risk table according to the third normal form, no transitive dependency to the key, a non key value ...
BUT, the guy said that he wants to keep the tables as they are so we had to make a new table "riskinfo" and link the data 1:1 to the new column.
What is your opinion ?
We add columns to our tables that are referenced by a variety of apps all the time.
So long as the applications specifically reference the columns they want to use and you make sure the new fields are either nullable or have a sensible default defined so it doesn't interfere with inserts I don't see any real problem.
That said, if an app does a select * then proceeds to reference the columns by index rather than name you could produce issues in existing code. Personally I have confidence that nothing referencing our database does this because of our coding conventions (That and I suspect the code review process would lynch someone who tried it :P), but if you're not certain then there is at least some small risk to such a change.
In your actual scenario I'd go back to the contractor and give your reasons you don't think the change will cause any problems and ask the rationale behind their choice. Maybe they have some application-specific wisdom behind their suggestion, maybe just paranoia from dealing with other companies that change the database structure in ways that aren't backwards-compatible, or maybe it's just a policy at their company that got rubber-stamped long ago and nobody's challenged. Till you ask you never know.
This question is indeed subjective like what Binary Worrier commented. I do not have an answer nor any suggestion. Just sharing my 2 cents.
Do you know the rationale for those decisions? Sometimes good designs are compromised for the sake of not breaking currently working applications or simply for the fact that too much has been done based on the previous one. It could also be many other non-technical reasons.
Very often, the programming community is unreasonably concerned about the ripple effect that results from redefining tables. Usually, this is a result of failure to understand data independence, and failure to guard the data independence of their operations on the data. Occasionally, the original database designer is at fault.
Most object oriented programmers understand encapsulation better than I do. But these same experts typically don't understand squat about data independence. And anyone who has learned how to operate on an SQL database, but never learned the concept of data independence is dangerously ignorant. The superficial aspects of data independence can be learned in about five minutes. But to really learn it takes time and effort.
Other responders have mentioned queries that use "select *". A select with a wildcard is more data dependent than the same select that lists the names of all the columns in the table. This is just one example among dozens.
The thing is, both data independence and encapsulation pursue the same goal: containing the unintended consequences of a change in the model.
Here's how to keep your IT chief happy. Define a new table with a new name that contains all the columns from the old table, and also all the additional columns that are now necessary. Create a view, with the same name as the old table, that contains precisely the same columns, and in the same order, that the old table had. Typically, this view will show all the rows in the old table, and the old PK will still guarantee uniqueness.
Once in a while, this will fail to meet all of the IT chief's needs. And if the IT chief is really saying "I don't understand databases; so don't change anything" then you are up the creek until the IT chief changes or gets changed.
I know, I quite dislike the catch-all survey type questions, but I couldn't think of a better way to find out what I think I need to know. I'm very green in the world of database development, having only worked on a small number of projects that merely interacted with the database rather than having to actually create a new one from scratch. However, things change and now I am faced with creating my own database.
So far, I have created the tables I need and added the columns that I think I need, including any link tables for many-many relationships and columns for one-to-many relationships. I have some specific questions on this, but I felt that rather than get just these answered, it would make more sense to ask about things I may not even know, which I should address now rather than 6 months from now when we have a populated database and client tools using it.
First the questions on my database which have led me to realise I don't know enough:
How do I ensure my many-to-many link tables and my one-to-many columns are up-to-date when changes are made to the referenced tables? What problems may I encounter?
I am using nvarchar(n) and nvarchar(MAX) for various text fields. Should I use varchar equivalents instead (I had read there may be performance risks in using nvarchar)? Are there any other gotchas regarding the selection of datatypes besides being wary of using fixed length char arrays to hold variable length information? Any rules on how to select the appropriate datatype?
I use int for the ID column of each table, which is my primary key in all but the link tables (where I have two primary keys, the IDs of the referenced table rows). This ID is set as the identity. Are there pitfalls to this approach?
I have created metadata tables for things like unit types and statuses, but I don't know if this was the correct thing to do or not. Should you create new tables for things like enumerated lists or is there a better way?
I understand that databases are complex and the subject of many many worthy tomes, but I suspect many of you have some tips and tricks to augment such reading material (though tips for essential reading would also be welcome).
Community wiki'd due to the rather subjective nature of these kinds of posts. Apologies if this is a duplicate, I've conducted a number of searches for something like this but couldn't find any, though this one is certainly related. Thanks.
Update
I just found this question, which is very similar in a roundabout way.
Not normalising
Not using normalisation
Trying to implement a denormalised schema from the start
Seriously:
Foreign keys will disallow deletes or updates from the parent tables. Or they can be cascaded.
Small as possible: 2 recent SO questions datatypes and (n)varchar
May not be portable and your "natural key" (say "product name") still needs a unique constraint. Otherwise no, but remember that an IDENTITY column is a "surrogate key"
Edit: Say you expect to store fruit with columns FruitID and FruitName. You have no way to restrict to one occurence of "Apple" or "Orange" because although this is your "natural key", you are using a surrogate key (FruitID). So, to maintain integrity, you need a unique constraint on FruitName
Not sure or your meaning, sorry. Edit: Don't do it. Ye olde "One true lookup table" idea.
I'll reply to your subjective query with some vague generalities. :)
The most common pitfall of designing a database is the same pitfall of any programming solution, not fully understanding the problem being solved. In the case of a database, it is understanding the nature of the data. How big it is, how it comes and goes, what business rules must it adhere to.
Here are some questions to ponder.
What is updated the most frequently? Is keeping that table write-locked going to lock up queries? Will it become a hot spot? Even a seemingly well normalized schema can be a poor performer if you don't understand your read versus write ratios.
What are your external interface needs? I've been on projects where the dotted line to "that other system" nearly scuttled the whole project because implementing it was delayed until everything else was in place, that is to say, everything else was inflexible.
Any other unspoken requirements? My favorite is date sensitivity. All the data is there, your reports are beautiful, the boss looks them over and asks, when did that datum change? Who did it and when? Is the database supposed to track itself and its users, or just the data? Will your front end do it for you?
Just some things to think about.
It does sounds like you've got a good grasp on what you're meant to be doing, and indeed there isn't "one true path" to doing databases.
Have you set up cascades for your hierarchical objects (i.e., a single delete at the 'head' of your object in the database will delete all entries in tables relating to that entry)?
Your link tables and 1:n columns should be foreign keys, so there isn't much to worry about if the data changes. By "two primary keys" here, did you mean indexes?
As for metadata tables, I've done them in the past, and I've not done them. A single char status with SQL comment can suffice for a limited set of statuses, but beyond a certain amount, or where you can think of adding more in the future, you might want to have a reference to another table of metadata, or maybe a char(8ish). E.g., I've seen user tables have "NORMAL", "ADMIN", "SUPER", "GUEST", etc for user type, which could have been 1,2,3,4,5 fkeys to a "UserType" table, but with such a restricted enumeration does it matter? Other people have a table of permissions (booleans of what a user can do) instead - many ways to skin a cat.
You might find some usable stuff in these slides:
[http://www.slideshare.net/billkarwin/sql-antipatterns-strike-back][1]
I also am a beginner to database design, but I found this online tutorial very, very helpful:
Database design with UML and SQL, 3rd edition
The author explains all the fundamental design aspects of database, and in a very clear manner. Before I found this online guide I did a lot of wikipedia reading about normalization. While that helped, this author explains the exact same stuff (through 3rd normal form, at least) but in a much, much easier to read way. It pretty much addresses all your questions as well.
I'd suggest a good book. The best IMO is this:
http://www.amazon.com/Server-2005-Database-Design-Optimization/dp/1590595297/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1
In addition to not normalizing, a common problem I see is overindexing, done before there are performance measurements that take into account your in-production mix of reads vs. writes.
It's really, really easy to add an index to speed up a query, and harder to figure out which one to remove when you have several that are getting updated during an INSERT or UPDATE.
The middle ground is to go after obvious secondary indexes (e.g., for common, frequent lookups by name on large tables), deferring other candidate indexes until you have reasonable performance tests in place.
Among other things, not using primary keys, not thinking ahead about whether you'll be using indexed views (and designing tables accordingly; I once had to drop and recreate a large table at my site to change its ANSI_NULL attribute to ON so that I could then use it with an indexed view), using indices.
Update 2009.04.24
The main point of my question is not developer confusion and what to do about it.
The point is to understand when delimited values are the right solution.
I've seen delimited data used in commercial product databases (Ektron lol).
SQL Server even has an XML datatype, so that could be used for the same purpose as delimited fields.
/end Update
The application I'm designing has some many-to-many relationships. In the past, I've often used associative tables to represent these in the database. This has caused some confusion to the developers.
Here's an example DB structure:
Document
---------------
ID (PK)
Title
CategoryIDs (varchar(4000))
Category
------------
ID (PK)
Title
There is a many-to-many relationship between Document and Category.
In this implementation, Document.CategoryIDs is a big pipe-delimited list of CategoryIDs.
To me, this is bad because it requires use of substring matching in queries -- which cannot make use of indexes. I think this will be slow and will not scale.
With that model, to get all Documents for a Category, you would need something like the following:
select * from documents where categoryids like '%|' + #targetCategoryId + '|%'
My solution is to create an associative table as follows:
Document_Category
-------------------------------
DocumentID (PK)
CategoryID (PK)
This is confusing to the developers. Is there some elegant alternate solution that I'm missing?
I'm assuming there will be thousands of rows in Document. Category may be like 40 rows or so. The primary concern is query performance. Am I over-engineering this?
Is there a case where it's preferred to store lists of IDs in database columns rather than pushing the data out to an associative table?
Consider also that we may need to create many-to-many relationships among documents. This would suggest an associative table Document_Document. Is that the preferred design or is it better to store the associated Document IDs in a single column?
Thanks.
This is confusing to the developers.
Get better developers. That is the right approach.
Your suggestion IS the elegant, powerful, best practice solution.
Since I don't think the other answers said the following strongly enough, I'm going to do it.
If your developers 1) can't understand how to model a many-to-many relationship in a relational database, and 2) strongly insist on storing your CategoryIDs as delimited character data,
Then they ought to immediately lose all database design privileges. At the very least, they need an actual experienced professional to join their team who has the authority to stop them from doing something this unwise and can give them the database design training they are completely lacking.
Last, you should not refer to them as "database developers" again until they are properly up to speed, as this is a slight to those of us who actually are competent developers & designers.
I hope this answer is very helpful to you.
Update
The main point of my question is not developer confusion and what to do about it.
The point is to understand when delimited values are the right solution.
Delimited values are the wrong solution except in extremely rare cases. When individual values will ever be queried/inserted/deleted/updated this proves it was the wrong decision, because you have to parse and touch all the other values just to work with the desired one. By doing this you're violating first (!!!) normal form (this phrase should sound to you like an unbelievably vile expletive). Using XML to do the same thing is wrong, too. Storing delimited values or multi-value XML in a column could make sense when it is treated as an indivisible and opaque "property bag" that is NOT queried on by the database but is always sent whole to another consumer (perhaps a web server or an EDI recipient).
This takes me back to my initial comment. Developers who think violating first normal form is a good idea are very inexperienced developers in my book.
I will grant there are some pretty sophisticated non-relational data storage implementations out there using text property bags (such as Facebook(?) and other multi-million user sites running on thousands of servers). Well, when your database, user base, and transactions per second are big enough to need that, you'll have the money to develop it. In the meantime, stick with best practice.
It's almost always a big mistake to use comma separated IDs.
RDBMS are designed to store relationships.
My solution is to create an
associative table as follows: This is
confusing to the developers
Really? this is database 101, if this is confusing to them then maybe they need to step away from their wizard generated code and learn some basic DB normalization.
What you propose is the right solution!!
The Document_Category table in your design is certainly the correct way to approach the problem. If it's possible, I would suggest that you educate the developers instead of coming up with a suboptimal solution (and taking a performance hit, and not having referential integrity).
Your other options may depend on the database you're using. For example, in SQL Server you can have an XML column that would allow you to store your array in a pre-defined schema and then do joins based on the contents of that field. Other database systems may have something similar.
The many-to-many mapping you are doing is fine and normalized. It also allows for other data to be added later if needed. For example, say you wanted to add a time that the category was added to the document.
I would suggest having a surrogate primary key on the document_category table as well. And a Unique(documentid, categoryid) constraint if that makes sense to do so.
Why are the developers confused?
The 'this is confusing to the developers' design means you have under-educated developers. It is the better relational database design - you should use it if at all possible.
If you really want to use the list structure, then use a DBMS that understands them. Examples of such databases would be the U2 (Unidata, Universe) DBMS, which are (or were, once upon a long time ago) based on the Pick DBMS. There are likely to be other similar DBMS providers.
This is the classic object-relational mapping problem. The developers are probably not stupid, just inexperienced or unaccustomed to doing things the right way. Shouting "3NF!" over and over again won't convince them of the right way.
I suggest you ask your developers to explain to you how they would get a count of documents by category using the pipe-delimited approach. It would be a nightmare, whereas the link table makes it quite simple.
The number one reason that my developers try this "comma-delimited values in a database column" approach is that they have a perception that adding a new table to address the need for multiple values will take too long to add to the data model and the database.
Most of them know that their work around is bad for all kinds of reasons, but they choose this suboptimal method because they just can. They can do this and maybe never get caught, or they will get caught much later in the project when it is too expensive and risky to fix it. Why do they do this? Because their performance is measured solely on speed and not on quality or compliance.
It could also be, as on one of my projects, that the developers had a table to put the multi values in but were under the impression that duplicating that data in the parent table would speed up performance. They were wrong and they were called out on it.
So while you do need an answer to how to handle these costly, risky, and business-confidence damaging tricks, you should also try to find the reason why the developers believe that taking this course of action is better in the short and the long run for the project and company. Then fix both the perception and the data structures.
Yes, it could just be laziness, malicious intent, or cluelessness, but I'm betting most of the time developers do this stuff because they are constantly being told "just get it done". We on the data model and database design sides need to ensure that we aren't sending the wrong message about how responsive we can be to requests to fulfill a business requirement for a new entity/table/piece of information.
We should also see that data people need to be constantly monitoring the "as-built" part of our data architectures.
Personally, I never authorize the use of comma delimited values in a relational database because it is actually faster to build a new table than it is to build a parsing routine to create, update, and manage multiple values in a column and deal with all the anomalies introduced because sometimes that data has embedded commas, too.
Bottom line, don't do comma delimited values, but find out why the developers want to do it and fix that problem.