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I have completed my degree in Computer Engineering. We had some basic electronics courses in Digital Signal Processing, Information Theory, etc. but my primary field is Programming.
However, I was looking to get into Embedded Systems Programming, and I have NO knowledge of how it is done. However, I am very keen on going into this field.
My questions :
What are the languages used to program embedded systems?
Will I be able to learn without having any basics in electronics?
Any other prerequisites that I should know?
Without a doubt, experience or at least a significant understanding of digital electronics and low level computer engineering is required. You'll need to be able to read device datasheets and understand them. Scopes, multimeters, logic analyzers, etc... are tools of the trade.
C is used mostly, but higher level languages are sneaking in slowly.
Getting started in Embedded Systems is a complex task in itself, because it is a very vast field with numerous options in hardware and software.
What are the languages used to program embedded system programs?
Assembly Language, C, C++, Python, C# and others.
Will I be able to learn without having any basics in electronics?
Learning embedded systems without the basic knowledge of electronics would not be a good idea. Embedded systems is a mix of hardware and software. You can follow the approach of learning-by-doing instead of going through the lengthy and detailed text books.You can refer to this blog
to learn embedded systems by doing practicals, step by step. It will help you to get started from the scratch.
Any other prerequisites that I should know?
Basic electronics, digital electronics, knowledge of microcontrollers and C programming. Since you are from computer science background you would need a development board of any 8-bit microcontroller (students of EE and ECE have enough knowledge and background to build it on breadboard or pcb) to get started. (Don't prefer simulators in the start, you might get your concepts wrong!).
You have to accept constraints and be able to work with them:
CPU speed
scarce memory
lack of networking facilities
custom compilers and OSes
custom motherboards and drivers
debugging with a logic analyzer
weird coding and testing practices
...
The reward is a deep understanding on what is going on.
VHDL, Verilog, and FPGA's are serious players in this arena as well. With a good background in CS, plenty of commitment, and maybe some MIT OpenCourseware you'll be able to pull off something good. A good knowledge of cpu architectures and some ASM will go a long way too.
I went into that field with no knowledge of how it was done as a fresh graduate and quit after 1,5 years. So, what I say may be a little bit rusty, and definitely not comprehensive.
The language we were using was C. But at that time, the disc space was 4MB and memory was 8MB on the devices we were developing for, and I know that C was used due to its libraries' tiny footprint. Apparently, performance was a criterion as well.
As to basic electronics, for an entry level position almost none is necessary. You will gain the required information and experience with time.
Not prerequisites, but having experience in the operating system internals and system development is definitely a plus.
Embedded systems are generally programmed in C, although there are systems at the ends of the range which use assembler when code space or timing is really tight (or there is no decent C compiler available), and at the other end, C++ up to .NET compact. It depends on what you mean by embedded systems, they go from really small microcontrollers with a few hundred bytes of RAM and program space, up to the smartphone type of device running a full multitasking operating system and user interface.
You'll get further in the higher end of this range without a background in electronics, because its less tied to the hardware and more similar to desktop development. As you go down the range of applications, a knowledge of electronics, analogue and digital, and power supplies, noise issues, compliance issues, heat issues and others all combine to make a really challenging design environment.
Start by reading some of the links here and embedded.com
The one thing that I have not seen mentioned in the answers so far is that up until now you have probably done most of your coding in the context of an operating system. In many (perhaps most?) cases, with firmware as opposed to software, you will not have the convenience and benefits of coding on top of an operating system. This is why so many of the other answers indicated that a good knowledge of electronics was critical.
As others mentioned, embedded can mean many things. In my world (Aerospace and Defense), we work with real-time operating systems (VxWorks and Integrity are the biggest players) and occasionally Linux. We program in C primarily, although C++ is also used as well if the project has decided to use Object Oriented Programming and Modeling.
So, as for the Pre-Reqs, C for sure. You really need to learn all about C, including BIT wise operations, dealing with hex values, pointers, all the low level stuff. Assembly as well, but I only use it for debugging the hardest stuff nowadays. You need to know enough to read and understand.
I think An Embedded Software Primer is a great start to change your thinking towards embedded. Handling interrupts, real-time issues, etc...
As Mickey mentioned, sometimes you don't even have an OS. In these cases, you usually write your own task manager of some sort, but that usually wouldn't be something for the newbie to start with. Good luck.
Languages: C, Assembler, Processing, Basic and a whole variety of others, it depends on what platform you're using as to what's available.
You might get more specific information if you ask the same question at ChipHacker or Electronics Exchange which are both stack exchange style sites (like this is) but geared to electronics and "physical computing".
You'll want to get pretty comfortable with C and build a solid understanding of assembly. In systems / embedded, usually you're working with small amounts of memory and slower processors, so you need to understand how to use limited resources wisely.
If you're getting into this as a hobby, pick up a gumstix board or an arduino, these dev boards will give you hundreds of hours of learning and fun.
If you're trying to make a career of this, find a job where the projects sound interesting and get your hands dirty. Take every task that comes your way and ask yourself how you can do better and learn from this task.
Either way, have fun and happy coding!
Learn C. Learn to apply C to all problems. Other languages can wait. Eventually assembly will help and no programmer should be without the use a scripting language.
Depending on what embedded targets you use there could be very little difference between a PC and your target. With little electronics background this would be your easiest entry.
Small processors will give you the the steepest learning curve but you will learn the most about embedded programming. However with no electronic background this can present extra problems you might not have the skills to solve yet.
Eventually you will have to learn electronics if you want to make further progress beyond the basics.
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I've just finished watching the first week of Functional Hardware Verification course at Udacity. In the promo, it says, it requires both Electrical Engineer and Software Engineer skills. This is why it intrigued me. But I got an impression like, it is only for chip designers. Am I wrong?
Can it be also useful for embedded software developing ?
For example, how can I utilize this information with a Raspberry Pi and/or an Android device ? Is it possible or am I wasting my time with this course?
I'll be happy if someone could give me an insight.
1) is this a stack overflow question? not sure, will see what happens.
2) is this a waste of time, I would argue no, its free, just watch, learn something
3) does it apply to embedded on a raspberry pi or android? probably not, depends on your definition of embedded first off, if you are making api/library calls to an operating system or environment, that is just writing applications. if you are digging down into the bare metal, it gets closer, but not quite. Now if you are working somewhere where you work hand in hand or are or are going to be designing chips, fpgas, cplds, etc. And, the company is such that they are willing to move into the 1990's or 2000's and allow the software developers to develop against the rtl in simulation, access to the simulator licenses (very expensive, doesnt take very many cadence licences to shadow your salary).
During the chip development phase of time (vs the post silicon sell the chips for a while before the next chip starts) we build our own sims using the kinds of things I assume this class is teaching, but perhaps not since the traditional testing methods are not quite what I am talking about. we sim portions or the whole chip, use the "foreign language interface" or whatever the vendor calls it, to interface software to the simulated hardware. We do it using an abstraction layer in such a way that a high percentage of the code we write against sim will run against silicon using a different abstraction layer/shim. This can give months to a year or more head start on the software, and can find bugs in the logic design as well as the design of the hardware/software interface (are interrupts a good idea, can we poll fast enough, use dma, etc).
Cadence is of course going to push their product and their ways of doing things even though their products support a wide range of features. There are other tools. I am a fan of verilator, open source, free. but it is very particular about the verilog it supports, mostly synthesizable only, and that is fine by me, so depending on the verilog author you are relying on they may not have habits that support whate verilator is looking for. icarus verilog is much more forgiving but very slow. verilator is like 10 times slower than cadence, icarus is slower than that. but free is free...There are a number of things at opencores for example that you can play with if you want to see this in action, amber, mpx, and altor32 are ones I have played with for example.
If you land one of these chip/board company jobs then familiarity with simulators like cadence and modelsim and the free tools (verilator, icarus, gtkwave, ghdl, etc) are valuable. Being able to read verlog and/or vhdl (which is not hard if you are already a programmer, the only thing new is that some of the code is truly "parallel", which with multi-core processors today that is not actually a new thing for a programmer). If you are able to interface software to the simulator, then you are an asset to that company because you can facilitate this development against the simulated hardware and save the company money in units of multiples of your salary with found bugs before silicon and shorting the schedule by many months.
Lastly, being able to look at waveforms and see your code execute is an addictive experience.
Just like learning bare metal, or assembly, getting familiar with hardware at this next lower level can only help you as a programmer, even if the experience is with logic or processors that are not the ones you are programming. Remember that just like programmers, take any N number of programmers given the same task they may come up with anywhere up to N different solutions. Just because one implementation of a mips clone has certain details does not mean all mips nor all processors look like that on the insides.
I am an embedded SW Engineer, with less than 3 yrs of experience. I aim to "sharpen the saw" continuously. I was wondering if there was anything specific to low level programming that C/C++ coders should be proficient with.
What comes to my mind is familiarity with the hardware's architecture and instruction set. Knowing how to fiddle with bits is also important, resource management and performance have been part of my job, is there anything else?
EDIT: I work with an in-house customized RTOS, not embedded Linux.
I see a lot of high-level operating system answers here, but you specifically said low-level.
Some scattered thoughts:
Design for test. As you work through a problem only change one thing at a time per test.
You need to understand busses and interfaces, spi, i2c, usb, ethernet, etc. Number one interface, today, yesterday, and tomorrow, the uart, serial.
The steps involved in programming a flash.
Tricks to avoid making the product easily brickable.
Bootloaders in general.
Bit-banging above said interfaces on various families of parts (different chip
vendors have different ideas about io pins, pull ups, direction
controls, etc).
Board and chip bring up, you certainly never want to
boot a many tens of thousands of lines of code program on the first
power up (think led on, led off).
How to debug a product without using too much test equipment (logical analyzers and scopes), at the same time you have to learn to use a scope for debugging, you are far
more valuable if you don't HAVE TO have a tech or engineer in the lab
with you.
How would you reprogram the unit in the field? What would
you do to minimize human error when allowing the user to field
upgrade the unit? Remember field downgrades as well.
What would you do to discourage hacking (binaries, etc).
Efficient use of the flash/rom (don't wear out one bank or section, spread the wear around, or see if the flash is doing it for you).
How and when to use a watchdog timer.
State machines, very useful with bytestreams (serial and ethernet), design packet structures that stream well and are tailored to a state machine, and that have a header and checksum or other structure that insures you do not interpret partial packets or
random data as a good packet.
Specific concepts like,
Endianness (this link is to an old but good linuxjournal article)
Effective use of multithreading architectures (the Embedded site is good in general)
Debugging embedded and multithreaded systems
Understand, Learn and Follow good programming techniques (the link is very old and the point very generic and subjective, but think about it)
Other things (this IBM page on embedded linux sums up most of the other points I want to make)
One more thing -- never underestimate testing! or, planning test cases!!
Use the reference links I give as concepts,
please followup further for deeper knowledge.
I'd study the electronics of the actual chips. Learn how they work internally (such as architecture), interface with peripherals, electrical and timing characteristics, etc.
Basically, read the data sheet start to finish a few times and dig into anything you've not seen/used before.
By the way, what chips do you work with?
Similar to what Brian said, learn how to create unit tests and automated builds.
These skills are are good for all levels of software engineers to be proficient in. They will help improve the quality of your code while also making it easier to refactor and improve the code base.
If you haven't yet I think every Software Engineer should read The Pragmatic Programmer and Code Complete. I know these are not specific to low level programming, but have a large wealth of knowledge in them that applies to all sub disciplines.
Having great familiarity with pointers, the checks these languages don't do much (like buffer overflow and stuff like that), digital electronics. Operational systems internals might also help.
Get to know how stuff is represented internally, specially ready-made data structures (supposing you won't build your own one).
Above all, practice a lot. Doing it brings much more to you than just reading about it ;)
bit operations
processor architectures (caches, etc)
wcet analysis
scheduling
Edit: What I forgot to mention is model based development.
Today, the control algorithms are often implemented as some kind of automaton from which C code is generated afterwards.
Commercial available tools are for example MATLAB/Simulink, ASCET or SCADE.
Get yourself a copy of the MISRA-C book. It was originally written by members of the automotive industry, and attempts to make software written in C more robust by applying a number (quite a large number!) of rules and guidelines.
Then, buy PC-Lint (or another static analysis tool) to check your code for MISRA and other rules.
These are particularly relevant to low-level and embedded C, as between them they deal with the causes of a lot of bugs in such software, such as issues relating to pointers, memory leaks, integer promotion (there's a whole chapter on that in the MISRA book), endianness, and undefined behaviour.
Good question. Some that haven't been mentioned...
Learn your various options for achieving low-level multitasking. From basic round-robin (non-preemptive) schedulers, with timing ticks from a hardware timer, up to a preemptive RTOS. Learn why you might need an RTOS, and why you might not. If you use an RTOS, learn that beginners with a PC background probably tend to want to create too many tasks.
Getting visibility into the internals for debugging can be a challenge. There's no screen typically, so no throwing in "printf" calls wherever you want. An emulator or JTAG interface is ideal--you can set breakpoints and step through your program (as long as halting the micro doesn't make hardware go crazy, like swinging a robot arm around at full speed!). If emulator/JTAG is not available, learn how to use a spare serial port (or maybe even bit-bash a pin to make a serial port) for a debug channel, with some simple memory peek/poke commands.
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Which family should I start to learn? (Never did any programming on microcontroller)
Today AVR and PIC are probably the most common microcontrollers among hobbyists. Both have a very wide range of device variants and both can be used to achieve similar results.
For a beginner I would suggest AVR due to various reasons:
AVR family (tiny, mega) is coherent and easy to understand. The architecture is powerful and modern, and is especially suitable for C compilers. AVRs can of course be programmed in assembly too.
Due to its C-friendly architecture, there are quality C compilers available, both commercial and free. The ubiquitous GCC is ported to AVR and called avr-gcc.
For getting started all you really need is a handful of basic components, the AVR chip itself and a breadboard. Even the programming cable between PC and AVR can be built essentially for free (a so called wiggler). However, several commercial development kits are available, most notably Atmel's own STK500. A commercial development kit is more expensive way for getting started, but doesn't require practically any prior knowledge about electronics. Some development kits contain for example LCD displays so it's easy to get interesting stuff done.
It has a rich hobbyist community.
PIC is notorious for its peculiar architecture. Many love PIC for this, some hate it. AVR is more straightforward and doesn't seem to cause as much extreme and polar opinions.
Both AVR and PIC are used in many serious commercial applications. However, they are not the only options of course. My personal favorite microcontroller for both hobby and commercial work is Silicon Laboratories' C8051 family, most notably C8051F530. There is an excellent free C compiler and assembler for the C8051 family called SDCC.
Summary: There are lots of options, but please don't let that overwhelm you. Just pick one and start learning with it. Microcontrollers are, really, surprisingly easy to master once you just decide to get going!
My boss picked up the basics using AVR within a week without prior experience.
I would suggest AVR. It has far surpassed PIC as the microcontroller platform of choice for general hobbyist projects. Most notably, consider the Arduino (and other *duino) platform, which provides a high end AVR in an easy to interface and popular form factor.
I very much prefer the AVR over PIC, whose architecture I find a bit messy. This may be just me, and it won't trouble you if you can write in a high level language, most likely (some dialect of) C.
Since you're new to microcontrollers I presume performance will not be the issue, so instead I would look for availability of development tools: prototyping boards, IDE and simulation/debugging tools. Personally I liked AVR Studio (Atmel's free development environment) a lot.
Jason mentions the TI's MSP430, which is an excellent controller indeed, especially if you're in very low power applications. But I wouldn't recommend it for a newbie, since configuration is a bit cumbersome. (I recall that the description of the oscillator covered 20+ pages in the user manual.)
Some people commented on the strange (and C unfriendly) architecture of the PIC micro. This is true of the smaller PICs, but the 16 bit chips (PIC24F, dsPIC30, etc) have very clear architectures that work very well with C.
The PIC24F line has the ability to assign pins to functions (timers, A/D, serial I/O) on the fly, making it a bit easier to design with. The MPLAB environment for debugging and development is quite nice.
I've done some PIC programming - mostly because I liked the idea the chip were only a dollar or two. However, for a beginner, making a decision solely on price is premature optimization.
Programming in assembler is an experience. You basically have to learn about 100 concepts before you can blink an LED. (Watchdog timer, reset pins, 8-bit counters/overflows, delay loops, hex, binary, bit-masking, interrupts, interrupt service requests, IO ports, etc.) It's all very educational - and a great feeling to get so close to the machine - but being able to code something in C will hide some of this complexity so you can focus on results. For this reason I would say go with the AVR. (And I believe the prices are now closer to PICs.)
Also: If you're interested in getting things done (and don't mind spending ~$30) check out the arduino. A guy selling them at my local electronics shop was saying he's selling tons of them to art students. (It uses the IDE from the Processing project, and compiles code with avr-gcc.)
Update: Fixed comment that Arduino runs interpreted code. Also updated the approx Arduino price.
I don't understand what the big deal with arduino is, it will ruin your chance of ever understanding what is actually happening. I program with AVR's and PIC's regularly, basically there is not much difference, I can't see what the big fuss is all about.
However for a beginner stay away from arduino, it may be simple, but thats the trap, it gives you no concept of hardware architecture, and no idea what is happening behind the scenes, the stuff beginners need to learn to be an effective programmer.
When I was a beginner I started out with an ATmega32 a $20 USBasp programmer, AVR Studio (Free) and AVRDude (Comes with WinAVR) and followed the intro tutorials in AVR Freaks.
That is all you need, Done!!!
P.S. If you want to really learn how to program micros and have the time learn the assembler for your micro and you will be 20 times the C programmer than someone who started out using arduino.
My vote goes to PIC for the extreme variety of devices availables. But I must say that when I started to use PICs, they was almost nothing else. Maybe now things are changed.
I vote for TI's MSP430 series. I've used PICs extensively (also Atmel chips a little) and by far the most important thing to me is a good debugging IDE. TI has done a pretty good job on this, and their C++ compiler works really well. You can get going with an eval board for less than $100 including an IDE + USB-debugger. The PICs have better & more diverse hardware peripherals, but MPLAB is a piece of crap and the only C++ IDE for PICs is one by IAR which is rather expensive. (more than $2K)
I/we chose PIC mostly because there is more peripheral hardware for the same price. And more importantly, you can't even find comparable AVRs. I did choose one of the legacy free versions though (started with PIC18, migrated to dspic33)
The IDE is free, the (C) compiler is free in the student version (that disables optimization after the first month). Entry level programmers are fairly cheap too. If you have heaps of interrupts, counters and timers, there is a chance you won't need optimization at all. A programmer straight from Microchip is $30.
Note that the above remarks about AVR catering more to HLL development are slightly outdated unless you really go for the legacy architectures like PIC12 and 16.
One typically programs the more modern PIC18 (8-bit) and the 16-bit architectures (24F,30F and dspic33 which are based on the same principal core) in C. The 16-bitters even use GCC. There are also MIPS based 32-bitters now, but they rival more with ARM in the audio/video processing scene. Strangely enough, the modern ones are often cheaper than the old ones. Probably they are produced on in a more modern process that has higher yields.
Another note: meanwhile Microchip/PIC bought Atmel/AVR, but I assume that for the first few years that won't affect the productlines much.
I'm really looking forward to the 60MIPs ethernet enabled 16-bitter that is going to be released this summer (afaik streetprice just above EUR 10)
If you just want to know what is MCU programming, start from Arduino is a good idea. It's cheap, with a novice-friendly IDE (based on processing programming language, which has a similar syntax with C).
But this did not answer your quesiton, beacuse altough Arduino is based on AVR, you cannot feel there is an AVR MCU behind that modern IDE. :)
I had much more success with PIC while I was just getting started. I tried to get a simple starter kit from Arduino and just couldn't get a good basic kit without spending more than $100-200 nickel and diming the setup together. Got a great little starter kit from PIC for about $40 and it has everything: IDE, programmer, starter board with built in circuitry for demos and tutorials. One purchase. Also, the PIC environment was very easy to get set up and working. I was playing with it within an hour.
My first experience with microcontrollers was with an OOPic-R. It allowed me to make simple robotic experiments without worrying too much about the code. The object oriented programming flow makes everything work fast and is easy to program.
Recently, I tried another variety of PIC's, the dirt cheap PICAXE. The included programming interface is a breeze to work with. Also, to physically interface the PICAXE, you only need an RS-232 port to program it and two pins on the chip (no need to do level shifting). I've embedded the PICAXE in very small containers (SMD and DIP chips available) and it has worked quite well.
I have no experience with programming microcontrollers in assembly. If you want to try that, the AVR might be more suitable because of it's bigger user community.
As far as I know, the cheapest way to program an AVR using ATMEL's tools is the ATMEL AVR ISP mkII for 35$. You can find third-party programmers for 10-15$.
I would make my choice based on availability of a C cross-compiler. In the past, that would make AVR the choice. I'm not sure what the status is now.
I've programmed a PIC in assembler, and it was not much fun. C is much nicer in many ways.
http://www.arduino.cc/
HTH
On of the best features of AVR is the community in the forums at www.avrfreaks.net. You get a bunch of experienced electronics engineers hanging out, willing to help newbies to get going.
I would say that i fount the 8051 microcontroller the most easiest and Atmel has come up with microcontrollers with so many inbuilt functions .... but still people are more preferably using the AVR's... my hand would go up with the 8051 family ( if found comfortable ) else the AVR's ...
I love AVR. its easy to program and resources available. there are few community like arduino works with it.
Some more dicussion about the superiority of AVR, on the other Stack Overflow:
http://embeddedgurus.com/stack-overflow/2009/04/pic-stack-overflow/
The popularity of 8 bit PICs baffles me. It’s architecture is awful –
the limited call stack is just the first dreadful thing. Throw in the
need for paging and banking together with the single interrupt vector
and you have a nightmare of a programming model. It would be one thing
if this was the norm for 8 bit devices – but it isn’t. The AVR
architecture blows the PIC away, while the HC05 / HC08 are also
streets ahead of the PIC. Given the choice I think I’d even take an
8051 over the PIC. I don’t see any cost advantages, packaging
advantages (Atmel has just released a SOT23-6 AVR which is essentially
instruction set compatible with their largest devices) or peripheral
set advantages. In short, I don’t get it! Incidentally, this isn’t an
indictment of Microchip – they are a great company and I really like a
lot of their other products, their web site, tech support and so on
(perhaps this is why the PIC is so widely used?)
I started on a Motorola M68HC11, it was simple enough. I think you'll get about the same experience with any 8Bit controllers.
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Given my background as a generalist, I can cover much of the area from analog electronics to writing simple applications that interface to a RDBMS backend.
I currently work in a company that develops hardware to solve industry-specific problems. We have an experienced programmer that have written business apps, video games, and a whole bunch of other stuff for PC's. But when I talk to him about doing low-level programming, he simultaneously express interest and also doubt/uncertainty about joining the project.
Even when talking about PC's, he seems to be more comfortable operating at the language level than the lower-level stuff (instruction sets, ISR's). Still, he's a smart guy, and I think he'd enjoy the work once he is over the initial learning hump. But maybe that's my own enthusiasm for low-level stuff talking... If he was truly interested, maybe he would already have started learning stuff in that direction?
Do you have experience in making that software-to-hardware (or low-level software) transition? Or, better yet, of taking a software only guy, and transitioning him to the low-level stuff?
Edit:
P.S. I'd love to hear from the responders what their own background is -- EE, CS, both?
At the end of the day, everything is an API.
Need to write code for an SPI peripheral inside a microcontroller? Well, get the datasheet or hardware manual, and look at the SPI peripheral. It's one, big, complex API.
The problem is that you have to understand the hardware and some basic EE fundamentals in order to comprehend what the API means. The datasheet isn't written by and for SW developers, it was written for hardware engineers, and maybe software engineers.
So it's all from the perspective of the hardware (face it - the microcontroller company is a hardware company filled with hardware/asic engineers).
Which means the transition is by no means simple and straightforward.
But it's not difficult - it's just a slightly different domain. If you can implement a study program, start off with Rabbit Semiconductor's kits. There's enough software there so a SW guy can really dig in with little effort, and the HW is easy to deal with because everything is wrapped in nice little libraries. When they want to do something complex they can dig into the direct hardware access and fiddle at the lower level, but at the same time they can do some pretty cool things such as build little webservers or pan/tilt network cameras. There are other companies with similar offerings, but Rabbit is really focused on making hardware easy for software engineers.
Alternately, get them into the Android platform. It looks like a unix system to them, until they want to do something interesting, and then they'll have the desire to attack that little issue and they'll learn about the hardware.
If you really want to jump in the deep end, go with an arduino kit - cheap, free compilers and libraries, pretty easy to start off with, but you have to hook wires up to do something interesting, which might be too big of a hurdle for a reluctant software engineer. But a little help and a few nudges in the right direction and they will be absolutely thrilled to have a little LED display that wibbles* like the nightrider lights...
-Adam
*Yes, that's a technical engineering term.
The best embedded programmers I've worked with are EE trained and learned SW on the job. The worst embedded developers are recent CS graduates who think SW is the only way to solve a problem. I like to think of embedded programming as the bottom of the SW pyramid. It's a stable abstraction layer/foundation that makes life easy for the app developers.
"Hard" is an extremely relative term. If you're used to thinking in the tight, sometimes convoluted way you need to for small embedded code (for example, you're a driver developer), then certainly it's not "hard".
Not to "bash" (no pun intended) shell scripters, but if you write perl and shell scripts all day, then it might very well be "hard".
Likewise if you're a UI guy for Windows. It's a different kind of thinking.
Why embedded development is "hard":
1) The context may switch to an interrupt between each machine instruction. Since high level language constructs may map to multiple assembly instructins, this might even be within a line of code, e.g. long var = 0xAAAA5555. If accessed in an interrupt service routine, in a 16 bit processore var might only be half set.
2) Visibility into the system is limited. You may not even have output to Hyperterm unless you write it yourself. Emulators don't always work that well or consistently (though they are way better than they used to be). You will have to know how to use oscilloscopes and logic analyzers.
3) Operations take time. For example, say your serial transmitter uses an interrupt to signal when it is time to send another byte. You could write 16 bytes to a transmit buffer, then clear interrupts and wonder why your message is never sent. Timing in general is a tricky part of embedded programming.
4) You are subject to subtle race conditions that occur only rarely and are very difficult to debug.
5) You have to read the manual. A lot. You can't make it work by fooling around. Sometimes 20 things have to be set up correctly to get what you are after.
6) The hardware doesn't always work or is easy to damage, and it takes a while to figure out that you broke it.
7) Software repairs in embedded systems are usually very expensive. You can't just update a web page. A recall can erase any profit you made on the device.
There are probably more but I've got this race condition to solve...
This is very subjective I guess, his reasons could be many. But if he's like me, I know where he's coming from. Let me explain.
In my career I've dedicated 6 years to the telecom industry, working a lot with embedding SDK middleware into low-end mobile phones etc.
Most embedded environments I've experienced are like harsh weather for a programmer, you constantly have to overcome limitations in resources etc. Some might find this a challenge and enjoy it for the challenge itself, some might feel close to "the real stuff" - the hardware, some might feel it limits their creativity.
I'm the kind who feels it limits my creativity.
I enjoy being back in Windows desktop environment and flap my wings with elaborate class designs, stretch my legs a few clockcycles extra, use unnecessary amounts of memory for diagnostics etc.
On certain embedded units in the past, I hardly had support for fseek() (an ANSI C standard file function). If lucky, a "watchdog" could give clues to where something crashed. Not to mention the pain of communicating with the user in single-threaded preemptive swamps.
Well, you know what I'm getting at. In my opinion it's not necessarily hard, but it's quite a leap, with potentially little reuse of your current experience.
Regards
Robert
There is a very real difference in mindset from user-level application development (ie, general purpose PC or Web applications) to hard deadline, real-time response application development (ie, the hardware/software interface).
Interrupts, instruction sets, context switching and hard resource constraints are relatively unknown to your average developer. I'm assuming here that your 'average developer' is not an Electrical/Electronic or other Engineer by training.
The transition for this developer you mention may be well outside his comfort zone. Some of us like stretching like that. Others of us may have decided the view isn't worth the climb.
Likewise, folks who've been in the hardware area (ie, Engineers) often have difficulty with the assumptions and language of software development.
These are gross generalities, of course, but hopefully give some insight.
He needs to be comfortable with the low-level stuff, but mostly for debugging and field issues. There is a serious learning curve depending on the architecture, but not impossible. On the other hand, the low-level code takes (in general) more time and debugging than higher-level code. So if you need to be going back to low-level all the time, then perhaps something isn't right in the design. Even for the embedded controls I've built, I spend the vast majority of time in high-level code. Although when you have issues, it is extremely advantageous to have a very good low-level knowledge.
I am an EE turned Software Engineer. I prefer programming low level. Most software developers classically trained that I know do not want to operate at this level they want apis to call. So for me it is a win win, I create the low level driver and api for them to use. There is a "new" degree, at least new since I went to college, called Computer Engineer. Hmm, it might be an electrical engineering degree not computer science, but it is a nice mix of software and digital hardware basics. The individuals that I have worked with from this field are much more comfortable with low level.
If the individual is not comfortable or willing then place them somewhere where they are comfortable. Let them do documentation or work on the user interface. If all of the work at the company requires low level work then this individual needs to do it or find another job. Dont sugar coat it.
I also think they will enjoy it once they get over the hump, the freedom you have at that level, not hindered by operating systems, etc. Recently I witnessed a few co-workers experience for the first time seeing their software run under simulation. Every net within the processor and other on chip peripherals. No you dont have a table on a gui (debugger) showing the current state of the memory, you have to look at the memory bus, look for the address you are interested in, look for a read or write signal and the data bus. I worry about the day that silicon arrives and they no longer have this level of visibility. Will be like an addict in detox.
Well, I cut my teeth on hardware when I started reading Popular Electronics at age 14 – this was BEFORE personal computers, in case you were wondering and if you weren’t well, you know anyway. lol
I’ve done the low level bit-bang stuff on the 8048/51 microprocessor, done PIC’s and some other single chip variations and of course Rabbit Semiconductor. (great if you're into C). That’s great (and fun) stuff; Yes, there is a different way of looking at things – not harder, but some of that information is a bit harder to come by as it isn’t as discussed as the software issues. (Of course, this depends on the circle of friends with which you associate, eh).
But, having said all of this, I want to remind you of a technology that started to bridge the gap for programmers into the world of hardware and has since become a very MAJOR player and that is the .NET micro framework. You can find information on this technology at the following;
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/embedded/bb267253.aspx
It addresses some of the same issues that .NET web development addressed in that you can use some (quite a bit, actually) of your existing PC based knowledge in the new environments – Some caution, of course, as your target machine doesn’t have 4 GIG of RAM – it may only have 64K (or less)
Starting in version 2.5 of the .NET micro framework, you have access to networking and web services – way kewl, eh? It doesn’t stop there … Want to control the lights in your house? How about a temp recording station? All with the skills you already have. Well, mostly -- Check out the link.
The SDK plugs into your VisualStudio IDE. There are a number of “Development Kits” available for a very reasonable amount of cash – Now, what would normally take a big learning curve in components, building a circuit board and wiring up “stuff” can be done reasonably easy with a dev kit and some pretty simple code – Of course, you may need to do the occasional bit bang operation, but more and more sensor folks are providing .NET micro framework drivers – so, the hardware development may be closer than you think…
Hope it helps...
I like both. Embedded challenges me and really gets me going in a visceral way. Making something that affects the macro physical world is very satisfactory. But I've had to do a lot of catch up on the electrical/electronics end, since my bachelor's is in computer science. I've a pretty generalist background, where I studied ai, graphics, compilers, natural language, etc. Now I'm doing graduate work in embedded systems. The really tough part is adjusting to the lack of runtime facilities like an operating system.
Low-level embedded programming also tends to include low-level debugging. Which (in my experience) usually involves (at least) the use of an oscilloscope. Unless your colleague is going to be happy spending at least some of the time in physical contact with the hardware and thinking in terms of microseconds and volts, I'd be tempted to leave them be.
Agreed on the "hard" term is quite relative.
I would say different, as you would need to employ different development patterns that you won't use in other kind of environment.
The time constraint for instance could requires a learning curve.
However being curious, would be a quality for a developer, wouldn't be?
You are right in that anyone with enough knowledge not to feel completely lost in an area (over the hump?) will enjoy the challenges of learning something new.
I myself would feel quite nervous being moving to the level of instruction sets etc as there is a huge amount of background knowledge needed to feel comfortable in the environment.
It may make a difference if you are able to support the developer in learning how to do this. Having someone there you can ask and talk through issue with is a huge help in that sort of domain change.
It may be worth having the developer assigned to a smaller project with others as a first step and see how that goes. If he expresses enthusiasm to try another project, things should flow on from there.
I would say it is not any harder, it just requires a different knowledge set, different considerations.
I think that it depends on the way that they program in their chosen environment, and the type of embedded work that you're talking about.
Working on an embedded linux platform, say, is a far smaller jump than trying to write code on an 8 bit platform with no operating system at all.
If they are the type of person that has an understanding of what is going on underneath the api and environment that they are used to, then it won't be too much of a stretch to move into embedded development.
However, if their world view stops at the high level api that they've been using, and they have no concept of anything beneath that, they are going to have a really hard time.
As a (very) general statement if they are comfortable working on multithreaded applications they will probably be ok, as that shares some of the same issues of data volatility that you have when working on embedded projects.
With all of that said, I've seen more embedded programmers successfully working in PC development than I have the reverse. (of course I might not have seen a fair cross section)
"But when I talk to him about doing low-level programming, he simultaneously express interest and also doubt/uncertainty about joining the project." -- That means you let him try and you prepare to hire someone else in case he doesn't pass the learning curve.
i began as a SW engineer i'm now HW one !
the important is to understand how it works and to be motivated !
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I'm looking to learn about embedded programming (in C mainly, but I hope to brush up on my ASM as well) and I was wondering what the best platform would be. I have some experience in using Atmel AVR's and programming them with the stk500 and found that to be relatively easy. I especially like AVR Studio and the debugger that lets you view that state of registers.
However, If I was to take the time to learn, I would rather learn about something that is prevalent in industry. I am thinking ARM, that is unless someone has a better suggestion.
I would also be looking for some reference material, I have found the books section on the ARM website and if one is a technically better book than another I would appreciate a heads up.
The last thing I would be looking for is a prototyping/programming board like the STK500 that has some buttons and so forth.
Thanks =]
"embedded programming" is a very broad term. AVR is pretty well in that category, but it's a step below ARM, in that it's both simpler to use, as well as less powerful.
If you just want to play around with ARM, buy a Nintendo DS or a Gameboy Advance. These are very cheap compared to the hardware inside (wonders of mass production), and they both have free development toolchains based off of gcc which can compile to them.
If you want to play around with embedded linux, BeagleBoard is looking to be a good option, only $150 and it has a ton of features.
Personally I think AVR is best for the smaller-sized 8-bit platforms, and ARM is best for the larger, more powerful 32-bit based platforms. Like many AVR fans, I don't like PIC. It just seems worse in pretty much every way. Also avoid anything that requires you to write any type of BASIC.
If you just want to play around with it, I'd suggest the Arduino platform (http://www.arduino.cc). It's based on the ATmega168 or ATmega8, depending on the version. It uses a C-like language and has its own IDE.
Myself I've worked in embedded programming for 9 years now and have experience on TI MSP430, Atmel AVR (a couple of flavours) and will be using an ARM soon.
My suggestion is to pickup something that has some extra features in the processor like ethernet controller and CAN controller, even get two or three if you can. Embedded devices are nice to work with, but once they can talk to other similar devices via CAN or get onto a network, they can become much more fun to play with.
ADI's Blackfin is another option since it's quite a straight forward architecture to program, yet can also do some fairly hefty DSP stuff should you choose to go down that route. It helps that the assembly language is quite sane too.
The Blackfin STAMP boards are an inexpensive (~$100 last I checked) way in, and they support the free GCC tools and uClinux.
Whatever architecture you choose I'd definitely recommend first downloading the toolchain\SDK and looking through the sample projects and tutorials - generally having a bit of a play about. You can often get quite acquainted with the architecture through simulation without even touching any hardware.
ARM has the nicest instruction set of the widely used embedded platforms, leaving you free to pick up the general principles of writing software for embedded platforms without getting bogged down in weird details like non-orthogonal registers or branch delay slots. There are plenty of emulators - ARM's own, while not free, is cycle-accurate; and a huge variety of programmable ARM-based hardware is cheap and easy to come by as well.
The TI MSP430 is a great platform for learning how to program microcontrollers. TI has a variety of FREE Tools and some cheap evaluation boards (starting at $20). Plus, it's a low-power, modern microcontroller.
A nice choice would be PIC18 by Microchip
It has quite alot of material, documentation, tutorials and projects on the internet
Free IDE and compiler.
you can pull your own flash writer in a few minutes.
(Although for a debugger to work you'll need to work harder)
If you're a student (or has a student email address) Microchip will send you free sample chips. So basically you can have a full development environment for close to nothing.
PICs are quite prevalent in the industry. Specifically as controllers for robots for some reason although they can do so much more.
Arduino seems to be the platform of choice these days for beginners although there are lots of others. I like the Olimex boards personally but they are not really for beginners.
Microchip's PIC range of CPUs are also excellent for beginners, especially if you want to program in assembler.
BTW, Assembler is not used as much as it used to. The general rule with embedded is if you've got 4k of memory or more, use C. You get portability and you can develop code faster.
I suppose it depends on your skill level and what you want to do with the chip. I usually choose which embedded chip to use by the available peripherals. If you want a USB port, find one with USB built in, if you want analogue-to-digital, find one with an ADC etc. If you've got a simple application, use an 8-bit but if you need serious number crunching, go 32 bits.
I'd like to suggest the beagleboard from TI. It has a Omap3 on it. That's a Cortex-A8 ARM11 CPU, a C64x+ DSP and a video accelerator as well.
The board does not need an expensive jtag device. A serial cable an an SD-Card is all you need to get started. Board costs only $150 and there is a very active community.
www.beagleboard.org
Your question sort of has been answered in this question.
To add to that, the embedded processor industry is very segmented, it doesn't have a major player like Intel/x86 is for the "desktop" processor industry. The ARM processor does have a large share, so does MIPS I believe, and there are many smaller more specific microcontroller like chips available (like the MSP430 etc from TI).
As for documentation, I do embedded development for a day job, and the documentation we have access to (as software developers) is rather sparse. Your best bet is to use the documentation available on the processor manufacturers site.
Take a look at Processing and the associated Arduino and Wiring boards.
If you just want to have fun, then try the Parallax Propeller chip. The HYDRA game platform looks like a blast. There's a $100 C compiler for it now.
I started on BASIC stamps, moved up through SX chips and PICs into 8051s, then 68332s, various DSPs, FPGA soft processors, etc.
8051s are more useful in the real world... the things won't go away. There's TONS of derivatives and crazy stuff for them. (Just stay away from the DS80C400) The energy industry is absolutely full of them.
Start with something tiny. If you have external RAM and plenty of registers... what's the difference between that and a SBC?
Many moons ago I've worked with 8-bitters like 68HC05 and Z80, later AVR and MSP430 (16-bit). However most recent projects were on ARM7. Several manufacturers offer ARM controllers, in all colors and sizes (well, not really color).
ARM(7) is replacing 8-bit architecture: it's more performant (32-bit RISC at faster instruction cycles than most 8-bitters), has more memory and is available with several IO-configurations.
I worked with NXP LPC2000 controllers, which are also inexpensive (< 1 USD for a 32-bitter!).
If you're in Europe http://www.olimex.com/dev/index.html has some nice low-cost development boards. Works in the rest of the world too :-)
For a fun project to test, have a look at xgamestation
But for a more industrial used one chip solution programming, look at PIC
For my Computer Architecture course I had to work with both a PIC and an AVR; in my opinion the PIC was easier to work with, but that's maybe because that's what we worked with the most and we had the most time to get used to. We used the AVR maybe only a couple of times so I couldn't get the hang of it perfectly but it also was nothing overly complicated, or at least not more frustrating than the other.
I think you can also order microprocessor samples from Microchip's website so you could also get started with that?
Second that:
Arduino platform http://www.arduino.cc
HTH
For learning, you can't go past the AVR. The chips are cheap and they'll run with zero external components - they also supply enough current to drive an LED straight from the port.
You can start with a cheap programmer such as lady-ada's USBTinyISP (USD$22 for a kit) which can power your board with 5V from the USB port. Get the free tools WinAVR (GCC based) and AVRStudio and get a small project working in no time.
Yes the AVRs have limitations - but developing software for microcontrollers is largely about managing resources and coping with those problems. It's unlikely that you'll experience problems such as running out of stack space, RAM or ROM when you're making hobbist projects for powerful ARM platforms.
That said, ARM is also a great platform which is widely used in the industry, however, for learning I highly recommend AVRs.
I would suggest Microchip's PIC18F series. I just started developing for them with the RealICE in-circuit emulator, but the pickit2 is a decent debugger for the price. You could say this for the AVR's also, but there is a large following for the device all over the web. I was able to have a - buggy, yet functional - embedded USB device running within days due to all the PIC related chatter.
The only thing I don't like about the PICs is that a lot of the sample code is VERY entwined into the demo boards. That can make it hard to tear out sections that you need and still have an application that will build and run for your application.
Texas Instruments has released a very interesting development kit at a very low price: The eZ430-Chronos Development Tool contains an MSP430 with display and various sensors in a sports watch, including a usb debug programmer and a usb radio access point for 50$
There is also a wiki containing lots and lots of information.
I have already created a stackexchange proposal for the eZ430-Chronos Kit.
You should try and learn from developpers kits provided by Embedded Artists. After you get the kit, check their instructional videos and videos provided by NXP, which are not as detailed as they could be, but they cover a lot of things. Problems with learning ARM as your first architecture and try to do something practicall are:
You need to buy dev. kit.
You need a good book to learn ARM assembly, because sooner or later you will come across ARM startup code, which is quite a deal for a beginner. The book i mentioned allso covers some C programming.
Combine book mentioned above with a user guide for your speciffic processor like this one. Make sure you get this as studying this in combination with above book is the only way to learn your ARM proc. in detail.
If you want to make a transfer from ARM assembly to C programming you will need to read this book, which covers a different ARM processor but is easier for C beginner. The down side is that it doesn't explain any ARM assembly, but this is why you need the first book.
There is no easy way.
mikroElektronika has nice ARM boards and C, Pascal and Basic compilers that might suite your demands.