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I work at a web development shop so naturally we deal with user profiles. When dealing with one of our sites I noticed that there was no 'User' class, which struck me as odd since we certainly have users. Instead the site relies on interacting with DataRows (this is C#) returned through static methods with little to no instantiation. I asked my boss about creating a class for users and his response was that since the objects have to be rebuilt so much its often not worth it.
I am relatively new to web development and it does seem like a bit of a waste to have to instantiate objects each time the page is rebuilt but on the other hand I've always found object oriented programming to be useful. So I'm curious for some opinions, how much do you guys use OOP in web development?
The only time I don't use OOP is when:
I'm creating a simple project to test some logic. This usually leads to creating the right classes...
I'm using Classic ASP (been awhile, thank god).
I'm not programming.
edit
3+ years after posting the above; I'm appending a bit to my answer.
OOP is great and allows us a tremendous amount of flexibility for having multiple systems interacting with the same data / logic. However, there is certainly a situation in which you wouldn't want to bother loading up a lot of objects.. Namely, when you are simply pulling data for tabular display.
Querying a database and getting a simple record set back that is immediately emitted to the browser usually doesn't need OOP involved. As a matter of fact you might want to sidestep OOP completely as tabular data usually involves a roll up of other information (sums of child records) and you normally don't want to pull more data from the database than what you are actually using. ie. if you are only showing the name and email you probably don't want to grab the user name as that is just wasted cycles.
Now, putting information into a DB usually involves making sure that certain business logic is followed. For example that the username follows certain rules. In those situations leveraging an OOP style keeps things a bit more encapsulated and easily transferred between systems.
So, looking at the specific example: I wouldn't bother with more than handing a datatable to a repeater when pulling data; but I would have a user class for when I'm going to create a new one or operate on that user to make sure the business rules are properly followed.
One question: does the data need to be coupled with function/method calls? If not, OOP is not necessary.
Your best approach might be to find an empty whiteboard, create a high level model using Object Oriented Design, then with Functional Design, then with Procedural. You might surprise yourself (and others) with the results. The same language can be used in vastly different ways depending on the project. As mentioned by #wj. OOP is just a paradigm, don't be afraid to step outside of your comfort zone and design using a different paradigm.
Taking time to design using different paradigms will also help you when you approach your boss to discuss why you should or should not use the current paradigm. Most bosses will appreciate that you spent the time to research before approaching them with an idea -- this isn't to say they'll accept your idea, but being knowledgable going in will potentially get you a few extra minutes of his/her attention.
IMHO (don't take this personally), "Object Oriented Programming" has fallen with the likes of "Web 2.0" -- a buzzword of sorts, which is unfortunate; you now see developers forcing OOP where it would be better suited to use FP or PP.
The best professional advice I can give is to design (high level at first, then dive down) in multiple paradigms (do your best not to be biased -- keep an open mind) and decide which one best addresses the way your application works. In my 15 years experience, 75+% of the time I find OOP to be unnecessary, although my current project is strictly OOP.
A more important/relevant question would be, "Does Object Oriented Design have a place in my current web development?"
Although objects make it easier for some programmers to develop, I've read the perfect example of how to build an entire website without OOP. Not once ounce. Check out the last page in a 20 page series entitled Clean PHP:
http://okmaya.com/clean-php/clean-php-step-20/
Super easy to follow, clean way of building an entire website. No confusing OOP, no super nested folder, no crazy spaghetti code to follow for hours... Just simple, clean, and well laid out functions that do EVERYTHING you need, without the use of OOP. And this example has everything from login/registration credentials, an admin section (CMS), even database fixtures to get you started, a search function that uses mapquest API to do zip code / lat-long lookups... I mean it has EVERYTHING for a core project, or website.
Why bother with OOP? Clean, and properly structured procedural code is great!
On the topic of OOP. I remember another fad that everyone thought it was cool, and everyone did it, but then found out that smoking gave you a whole bunch of problems.
Stick to the simple, stick to what you know. Be an expert in PHP and you never have to depend on a framework again. Don't get me started with OOP MVC Frameworks. Interpreted languages for the web were never meant to be OOP. OOP just adds another layer of complexity. Stop being lazy. Use your PHP, and learn how to freakin program!
On the other hand, I can see how making games on a console can be difficult without OOP. But then again, it's apples an oranges. Console games keep their objects in memory until the game exits, or object is destroyed from within game. Think about it... Why do they have a loading bar in front of every level? Now, imagine a web page that has to show you a loading bar every time it loads because it has to create objects from a database. SLLOOOOOOWWWWW central! And once you navigate away from this page, you have to start all over again.
Web pages are applications within themselves. It's like rebuilding your drag racer each time you go to the starting line, only to take it apart at the finish line. WTFridge? Seriously? Hey, super geniuses who think OOP is sooo cool... Keep your damn OOP out of my websites!
Just saying, this is from my 10+ years experience with web development, you know when we used to code pages in HTML, one by one?
OOP is nothing more than a programming paradigm !! but his importance is that hi is THE actual paradigm in use implying that all modern knowledge and best practices in software engineering will be expressed following this style of programming ...
A good example in your case (web development) is the Core J2EE Patterns.
(source: sun.com)
Of course it does. You (and more so your boss) say "rebuilding" like it's a huge chore.
What you mean by "rebuilding" is running the program. Tell your boss that OOP in general is stupid because even in a desktop environment every time somebody runs a piece of software the objects need to be rebuilt so it's not even worth it.
Boss's comment is useless. The .net framework consists of objects and nothing else. A "response" is an object, even in "classic ASP" - why would people have implemented it if that were resource ineffective?
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First a little about myself. I am not an experienced software engineer, architect or developer. I have done mostly small ASP and ASP.NET projects in C# for the last 5 years. I am pretty good with HTML and JavaScript. These projects were done when I had free time from my other duties which were not related to software development. I have now been moved into a software developer position. The company I work for is not a software development firm.
I am now working on a Silverlight LOB application with WCF and Entity Framework. I have been given little specifications for this project, just the 'make an application like X, only simpler so we don't have to pay for it', my boss doesn't check on my progress as often as I think he should, the project manager(a co-worker) will stop by now and then but we never discuss the specs, architecture, UI or business rules. I am mostly just asked when I think it will be done. I have had to learn Silverlight, WCF and Entity Framework to work on this project which is not a problem as I really enjoy working with these technologies. The problem is I am the only one in the company that knows anything about these and have no mentor/boss to discuss the problems and how they could be solved. I have been able to seek out one interested party in the company that has at least given me a list of some of the requirements.
I can't believe this is how software development should be done. I think the project managers should offer guidance and keep a closer eye on what is being done to prevent going in the wrong direction(but how can they in my situation since the don't know the technologies!).
Should I feel this way or am I way off base?
Thanks for listening.
What you describe is certainty not optimal, but it's extremely common, particularly in smaller shops. Some people find it rewarding to work in that kind of environment. It's not what the software engineering books teach, but that's why there are so many software engineering books.
If you want to continue working in this environment, you're going to have to supply all the discipline you rightly recognize as missing yourself. Write up a spec. Build a schedule. Share these with your management. Hold yourself to deadlines.
Share your concerns with your management; don't be shy about that. Chances are, they recognize the situation. Your boss doesn't check your progress? Publish your progress to him. Show him where you need to get to, how far along you are, and what's blocking you.
It'll be chaotic, no doubt, but you'll learn a lot.
Every organization is different. If they are operating in this capacity then you should adapt and make the best of the situation. It's either happening because that's how things are done and they are aware of it, or they don't know the wiser or don't want to invest to improve the process of delivering strategic/tactical projects.
In a perfect world everyone would have a robust Quality Methodology in place which would provide a framework for Project delivery and systems implementation. It's just not a reality.
Here are some tips to help you operate more effectively:
Identify your sponsors (the people who own the product) and determine the high level benefits and driving objectives of the business problem they seek to solve
Identify your stakeholders (who has influence and who has interest) and get them to communicate their needs as much as possible
Involve both sponsors and stakeholders in the process as much as possible or as much as they want
Capture what requirements you can from them through written form (email)
Provide opportunities for them to gain visibility into the delivery and to provide feedback
Your project will likely fail from your boss point of view. Because i'm sure you developing program not suitable for him. But you don't feel guilty. It's your boss' pain.('because you are good programmer). Sorry for so dark post :-).
The role of the project manager is not to know the technology, but they definitely should have a finger on the pulse of the project, so to speak. The real project management job is not to control the project, but rather to enable it. Either way, from your description, looks like yours isn't doing such a great job at it.
The other extreme is a process-heavy organization where meetings and committees decide everything, and all the real communication, if it exists at all, happens through side channels.
The ideal world lies somewhere in between.
Your project manager should not be too concerned with how you're doing things. Since they have no qualifications, the best they can do is connect you with someone who does. When they can't verify that you're building the thing right, they should at the very least ensure you're building the right thing. Even if it's for internal use, you still have a customer, and no communication with the customer spells bad news to me. :)
If your PM is not concerned about the issue, you could try to do something yourself. For example, ask the PM to connect you with a would-be end user of the application. Extract bits of your application and give them to the user to play with -- just make sure the bits you give them don't look or feel too finished.
If you can't change things, take this as a learning experience. Make sure next time you're up for a project, you know the things that went wrong last time, and try to mitigate them from the start.
And finally, if your bosses tell you this is a "more agile way" of working, punch them in the face. Agile is, or should be, synonymous with discipline, not complete lack thereof.
Good luck!
It is a hard situation. Only you can really determine the best way to proceed. However, I do think that the concern with the schedule and concurrent lack of documentation (requirements, expectations, use-case scenario documentation, etc) is a train-wreck waiting to happen. Even the sharpest and most experienced dev-teams suffer from the same problems.
The "when will it be done?" questions are best mitigated by regularly providing small partially functional builds that you can use to get useful information out of the moving target that is your customer. It is amazing how much communication can occur when somebody (your boss/customer/end-user) can actually "play with" something in front of them and reconsider what they really want.
I believe this situation is quite common. I had this, too, at my previous job. Here the bet is on the fact that you are already independent and well-versed in your business. I think you should tell your manager how you feel about this.
They should change something after hearing your opinion about this situation. Because if you do something wrong and the manager does not notice it, the company can lose a lot of money and time.
But it’s also not worth constantly waiting for someone to guide you and check your work. In any case, your workflow should have self-management.
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The question seems pretty simple, and so is the answer. I am a developer who recently started working. So far I had taken few bachelor and master level courses on OOP. And yet I am not comfirtable and confident with OOP concepts. Recently, I was searching for employment opportunities and I found that many employers were keen to know how much confident I am on OOP concepts.
I have a very strong theorotical knowledge on OOP concepts. Although this theorotical knowledge is helping me in clearing the interviews and getting a job but when it comes to implementation I am getting dumb. If you ask me what is reflection then you will get a perfect answer from me, but if someone asks me why and where do we use it, then I get fumbled.
Now I really want to know what I should do when I am not getting an opportunity to implement all or most of the OO concepts in my projects.
Also I really feel with all the latest development tools and programming environments, many of the programmers are getting pampered to use already built components, frameworks and libraries and this is might create a vacuum of good architects.
I want to become a successful architect and for that I think I must be very strong in this area.
Then I thought of learning NHibernate where you will be dealing with objects entirely.
Now what I need is few valuable tips that would help me in grasping all or most of the OOP concepts.
It sound like you're missing real programming experience. Nothing will substitute that.
Go working, exercise, read, learn from your more experienced colleagues. Eventually you'll get it.
As for very advanced tools, you are correct. They produce code monkeys in ever increasing amounts. If you see it right now you are on a good start. Just keep to the path. Good architects will always be needed and valued.
You want to start looking at design patterns. Knowing the when, how and why of using OOP is more valuable than knowing OOP itself.
Frameworks are great and I don't fault people for using them. But, there is still a lot of room for great architects in this space. Exploit the gap of programmers knowing how to use them, but not why or when. Frameworks quickly become a hammer looking for a nail for many developers. Open source is your friend here - dive into the source code and learn them from the inside out so you really understand what's being done and why.
In my experience, you learn the "conceptual" side of development from school and the "applications" side from real experience. There is no substitute for working on the job; no matter how much schooling I've had it never equates to what I've learned doing the real work. This is why it's also a good idea to get an internship in college if you're able.
As for the value of OOP itself, I find that it's most useful in large projects and in team projects. The whole point is to break down the solution into workable "conceptual" elements which makes intercommunication between team members easier as well as visualizing the solution. Visualization is the other big pro to OOP.
One thing to note about OOP IMHO is that entry level developers tend to overuse a lot of the OOP concepts. Not everything requires inheritance. Design patterns are extremely useful but also shouldn't be over applied. Look at your problem and first try to think of a solution on your own then compare it to known patterns and see if they provide a better answer. Simplicity can't be overrated.
Also, playing with tools like UML editors and Mind Mappers (such as XMind) are helpful in getting into the right frame of mind.
Check and see if there are any programming groups around you too; I find it's a good way to meet people that you can talk programming with and another advantage of OOP is its much easier to communicate programming ideas with.
Your next stop should be to look into design patterns (Applied OO). For an introductory text, check out Headfirst Design Patterns.
Interesting question. To some extent I've grown up with Object programming, I've evolved as the various frameworks have evolved, I'd never before considered how it would feel to come to a landscape where so many sophisticated frameworks already exist. Their very presence tends to inhibit that degree of fumbling and stumbling and generallly getting it wrong that leads to deeper understanding.
My perception though is that serious development is still a matter of good design, it's not all just fill-in-the-gaps, hey IOC framwork tell me what to do, programming.
You can enhance your theoretic knowlege by studying the "how" of the framworks you use. But I guess what you need is practical experience, can't comment upon what's open to you in your place of work, but if you can't get it there you may need to do some "hobbyist" or open source development.
One thing I would recommend is trying to get involved in design discussions, try to get your designs reviewed by experienced developers. With any luck they may even say: "hey why didn't you use reflection there ..."
It is the 'thinking' that is important, in OOP one needs to change thinking
while going about programming/developing in oop environment or using OOP
paradigm.
I have faced many a times this question myself: why use OOPL or
Object Oriented Programming Language when I can develop software in Procedural
Programming Language? Why use OOP methodology at all? What benefit does it have
what other non-oop doesn't?
I read from many sources (numerous books and articles on the subject to name!)
to trace the real reason, to hit the fundamental underlying idea or principle
for its being there as a paradigm of software engineering. I think what I found
is simple and that's why I suggest to bring a change in thinking.
If we look around we see things that surround us and the things we interact
with, directly or indirectly. We recognize them with names, we gave them.
Whatever the things are, either they exist in real plane or conceptual plane
and we 'know' them 'recognize' them and interact with them. And importantly we
'name' them. This naming is important because to interact with the 'things' and
for that knowledge of that interaction we need 'Names'.
What have you eaten today? Chocolate and coffee. So you have 'interacted' with
chocolate and coffee. Now Chocolate and coffee are edibles we have (humans)
have given names and with those names we recognize them. And also, we, in our
knowledge of our interaction with them - lets say keeping record of our
interaction with chocolate and coffee, know them with names as having
interacted with.
Interaction is a general term I am using here. Actually in our case, in the
example, you have performed an 'action' - eating. Through 'eating' action you
have interacted with chocolate and coffee. Now think this way, you, chocolate,
coffee are entities in the real world through an action came in interaction.
You may say a 'Process'.
What course Alice has enrolled for? Computer Science.
Computer Science does not have a real existence in the world in the sense a man
exists or a tree or a house, or coffee cup or other 'tangible things' exist. It
is a subject, 'conceptual thing'. The study of computer science has some
'topics' to be studied (or to have interaction with through our mental
faculty/processes)e.g discrete mathematics, design and analysis of algorithms,
Data Structure etc. Together they are named, as a subject of study, 'Computer
Science'. Now Alice 'study' (interaction) Computer Science.What is happening
here? OK, if We now think this way and say that Alice is a thing, an object.
Computer Science is a thing, an object.
Coffee is an object. Chocolate is an object. You, again, are an object. We find
that objects interacting with objects. Fantastic! One may exclaim! That's the
real world scenario! Actually it is a generalization reached through
Abstraction.
It is nothing but -at the surface level at least- naming with
meaning. Or you can say 'meaningful naming'. It is a process. It is so natural
and obvious to us that we simply overlook it.
In OOP we simply have to bring ourselves to this form of thinking process,
knowing and reminding ourselves that "Objects interact with Objects". Oh!
There are more than thinking only this. You have to remember that an object
may interact with itself! Think of you, what are you doing when you are
thinking? Yeah! And there is another very important thing I shall come to
in due time. Though I think it is obvious. But in due time. OK. What we
really do with computers? Actually we solve problems. Particularly those
problems which we try to do or solve in our minds. In broad sense we are
simulating mental processes in a machine, so designed by us. Remember AI is
still a far off thing in reality and there are debates both scientific and
philosophical, on whether a computer can become Intelligent at all. Another
way of putting it whether a computer can really simulate a real mental
process. But that's not for us to take here. Leave it!
If we want to solve problems in real life through a computing device we
would like to go as closely in representing the real life as possible.There
comes the term in OOP 'real life modelling'. It can be seen that in solving
real life problems, be it launching a space shuttle, or keeping the customer
and product sale information for processing we do abstraction and do
calculation, which is another form of abstract process, in turn we deal with
objects mentally, in our mind. So we represent real life objects (conceptual
objects such as numbers) in abstraction and deal with them with abstract
processes, as in mathematics. In computer too we would like to represent
objects and also like to represent processes in the form of objects. So here
comes the Object Orientation so to speak to software engineering. Now comes
that 'due time' to deal with another aspect of OO.
To go back to our example, What did you eat? Eating is an action, a form of
interaction. Which can be thought of as process which again can be thought of
as an Object, like a processes is thought of and represented as 'function' or
'routine' or 'procedure' in Non-OOPL. In OOP we can represent (abstract away)
eating as a process embodied as an object. Similarly studying is an object. In
the same line of thinking 'thing' and 'process' both be thought of as objects
and be represented in virtual plane which is computer memory. Therefore
Alice-an Object-Studies-an object-Computer Science-an Object is valid in OOP
parlance as far as our argument goes.
Can we write a piece of code here? Lets try.
class Alice {
private String name;
private String address;
private String stdID;
private Course courseOfStudy;
... other codes...
public void studies(Course sub) {
courseOfStudy=sub;
}
...
public Course getStudyCourse() {
return courseOfStudy;
}
}
class Course {
codes....
}
This way in OOP (here Java code) one can go about writing codes. I have just
given a simplistic coding. One can come up with better coding and design
approach depending on the software in mind to be written. In OOP design is very
important. So in thinking which I mentioned at the beginning the change should
be brought in. That's important! I prefer to go this way when it comes to OOPL
or OOAD, "everything is object".
Well that's what I wanted to say. You may or may not like it but comment and
say your mind.
I'm a vb.net developer in small IT department and I'm having trouble making the leap to programming exclusively with objects.
I understand the principles of OOP, design patterns, unit testing, etc, but when it comes to developing my applications, either my object design is poor, or I skip building with objects altogether. I know how to create unit tests, but don't have confidence in the ones I create.
I build almost exclusively data-driven data entry/reporting kind of apps. In most cases, much of the business logic is in the database in stored procedures and UDFs. I developer ASP.NET and Winforms applications to internal and external customers.
I've asked about small projects here on the Stack that I can look at to get an idea of good design and testing, but came up mostly short. I've read a bunch of books on design.
What are some good first steps toward breaking away from my old 'VB 6' ways?
Thanks!
A co-worker got me hooked on the book Domain Driven Design by Eric Evans. It really started to get me to move away from data driven development when nessasary.
Also getting involved in a .NET user group in your area will go along way in helping you find people who are more than willing to help you out.
I hear ya, man. I too, live in your world. A world where business people demand reports. Complex reports. Reports which are easily built with complex stored procedures. In this world it is easy to think that the database is king and it drives the application. That line of thought leads to complex database TSQL code, views, functions, and stored procedures.
Certainly if it is truly a report you need then a complex sql statement may be the answer. However, you want to know how to break out of that data-driven world and enter an object oriented world.
I think typical OO design tutorials won't do you justice. Who cares if a dog is a type of an animal and a German Shepherd is a type of dog. That doesn't explain how you do business at your job. Furthermore that is only an example of OO inheritance. Other OO patterns such as composition and dependency injection are much more useful most of the time.
The way I think you should approach your next project or task is to forget about the database temporarily. Pretend that you live in a magical world where getting data from the database doesn't have to happen and writing data back to the database also doesn't have to occur. You live in a world where your objects are always populated with the right data. Model your objects first in that abstract world. After doing so, then (and only then) concern yourself with the messy implementation details of getting and writing to the database. The database is only there to persist your data. Your data is alive because you've already modeled it to fit within the rules of your domain.
Understanding UML will help tremendously for this type of modeling. Use UML designs first to model your domain. Then code to those designs. Then work them to fit within the constrains of your database.
Eric Evans "Domain Driven Design" is a great book which hammers this and many other related points home. He makes the point that domain modeling is THE crucial element to successfully modeling an application. He goes on to point out that object oriented design lends itself better to domain modeling than any other type of programming paradigm.
Good luck. Once you embrace the fully modeled, fully typed world of objects, you'll never want to parse another dataset again.
Try to read code from projects that has been developed under OOP aproach.
Imagine how your code would looks like if you coding as the example that you are reading.
Be tough with your own code, try until you are satisfied and then when you read it after 3 months you'll find many other new things to improve it.
Remember the KISS rule, all the parts will fit as you still coding following the OOP principles.
Be disciplinated. It's easy to succumb to the old way but don't give up.
Remember Dijstra words:
...when you are doing something quick and dirty, you suddenly visualize that I am looking over your shoulders and say to yourself "Dijkstra would not have liked this", well, that would be enough immortality for me.
He lives inside each of us =). And you have done the most important thing, you really want to learn how. That's the main obstacle with VB6 developers when they change to VB.NET.
In VB6 it easier.
In VB6 always works faster.
It's the same thing...just looks better.
VB6 has a lot more functions.
Looks familiar?
There are two things I'd recommend:
Look into UML class diagrams and play around with the class diagram tool in Visual Studio. The purpose of OOP is to make things more "conceptual" by thinking in terms of objects and, at least for me, class diagrams help to do that.
Read through some good design patterns, like the Decorator or Factory method pattern. Since most design patterns take full use of object-oriented design and also are usually well described, they can really help get the concepts down.
I was in your shoes a few years back. I remember reading an article that estimated you would spend anywhere from 6 months to a year just reading about object-oriented development before you would start to "get it".
I started by just trying to introduce objects in my day-to-day procedural programming. Then I tried getting as much processing out of the UI as I could. Then I tried creating "layers" for my business logic and data access. I understand a lot of your business logic may already be in the database but it wouldn't hurt to have a BL layer in place in case that changed. Right now it can pretty much function as a pass through.
I have Eric Evan's Domain-Driven Design still to read but a couple of books that have helped me are "The Object-Oriented Thought Process" and the one that I'm currently reading, "Microsoft .NET: Architecting Applications for the Enterprise". This book, while maybe more than you really need right now, is the first that has helped me really understand the layers and how to implement them.
Anyway, good luck with your journey. Just remember, it's going to be a process, not a destination!
In addition to the advice given in the other answers, you should ditch the VB.NET and learn C#.
It won't do everything for you, but it will help you get out of your old ways of thinking.
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Definition:
CRUD - Create, Read, Update, Delete; The four basic functions of persistent storage. In the context of this question, specifically related to business applications.
I'll be honest, my goal when I began programming did not include being a lifetime CRUD programmer. Financial data is only so interesting for so long. And to me, that seems like the majority of programming gigs.
I'm still fairly fresh out of school, so any experience is still very beneficial, but eventually I want to move to something "less CRUD like." Currently, I have my eye on some machine control type work. However, I'm just not sure how to go in that direction.
So I want to get a feel for what other developers think about the topic.
Do you enjoy CRUD and why?
What have your experiences in CRUD been like?
How did you move from CRUD to non-CRUD work?
If you've moved, what do you like and hate?
If you've moved, what skills benefited/hastened the transition?
Edit:
I'm approaching CRUD with the attitude that I want to solve problems, not re-create the same form with different fields for a dozen different tables.
I don't think that there's really anyone who enjoys doing CRUD (well at least anyone sane). It's the most tedious part of web programming. My advice is to find or write a framework to automate this for you.
evolutility
django admin panel and django forms
However, if that's the majority of your work, you definitely should consider changing jobs.
Get a different job. Seriously, not all software development is developing business applications. Developing shipping software would make you much happier, I think. Try to find a job at a software company, and write some stuff that's going to ship to customers. Also, if you want to get into some of the low level hardware-style stuff, just start hacking away on some basic microcontrollers so you have at least some background with that.
Develop a framework to make CRUD creation easy in your line of work. Once you have done that, use the free time to improve it in terms of Usability, Security, Performance etc. That should keep your work interesting for a while.
I agree that CRUD's pretty boring. But I don't think it's the fact that it's financial data that makes it so. Perhaps you'd find that financial data a lot more interesting if, for example, it was streaming into a neural net based expert system you'd written to work out how best to invest it?
There's definitely an awful lot more to programming than CRUD. Find an aspect that interests you, and pursue it.
I am curious that no one mention task-based UI and CQRS here.
In fact, to answer your questions :
I don't enjoy CRUD...why ? see the following answers to your question
My experience of CRUD is that's a pain to write CRUD (full stack frameworks are a workaround at best I think), and often a pain for users as well
I move to non-CRUD work when I understand that building software is about giving a powerful tool for users, not a database editor with some business rules
I like to build software less coupled to full stack framework (Symfony2, ASP.NET & cie...), more fully object oriented, but I am more and more annoyed by RDBMS CRUD orientation, and more and more attracted by EventStore (Event Sourcing)
Let's get inspired by task based UI, CQRS and Event Sourcing (search Google, I do not have enough reputation to add more links...) => all together
However, I would like to be less opinionated to finish : there are some points that will not let you get out of CRUD. Some users love CRUD, they feel like in Excel...and also there are probably some applications for which CRUD fulfill all the needs...
CRUD - yes in the end we are storing, reading and updating data. But so what? That is just one part of the equation, at least in my world.
In business, data is essential, but it is the business logic and the decisions made from that data that is important. I have found it very rewarding to take raw data and use it to help business make decisions. We do that with business logic in our code, not to mention the endless ways of presenting that data in the presentation layer.
Yes in the end CRUD is involved, but it is much more than that, no?
Just my opinion.
Having a wide range of experience, my solution is to create my perfect product and start a business around it. I'm facing all sorts of interesting challenges, such as how to stream realtime data from an embedded device to a browser. This stuff gets my programming juices flowing and I have a list of important, fun features to add.
Dream up your perfect product domain, find some people who could benefit and ask them what problems they have. Once you pick up a common theme that interests you (mine was automation and power monitoring) start hacking. Of course for me it helps that my father has run the electronics company Technman for the last 30 years, and wants to create this product with me.
First, have you gone through most of what there is to know about persistent storage? It's worth figuring out how to practically apply database theory, etc. in your current job. Once you've been doing it for a few years and have it all figured out you should definitely think about expanding your horizons. I'd agree with you - unless you're building the DBMS itself - I find that the persistent storage part of the job gets to be fairly boring.
One of the best ways to get a job in a new area is to take a prototype of something relevant to the job to demonstrate at an interview. This is an incredibly powerful statement to make.
Embedded software is really my thing, but the market for this is slowly shrinking in North America and moving to the developing world, and it's a fairly specialized area to get started in.
It seems to me that the application space is still growing. Consider iPhone, J2ME, or Windows Mobile development for example. You can learn to do these on your own with a relatively small investment in equipment.
If you're not already doing this, there's also the web application space. Application server platforms like JBOSS and Glassfish are free and fairly easy to learn. Plus they provide a link back to the CRUD which you already know.
Yes, a lot of business software is CRUD. I used to work on that.
In machine control, part of that can be CRUD too. For example, logging sensor data and reporting it somewhere. Basically CRUD.
But I will admit - in machine control, it's mostly non-CRUD. You would probably enjoy doing something that actually makes an assembly line move, or builds cars, or makes motors spin at a certain speed. I know I do. At a financial institution, it's literally just numbers. Nothing "real" like a motor or a car.
Just about every program is going to have to create, read, update and delete some sort of data. In some systems this presents its' own challenges.
However most of the time reading and writing to databases is fairly easy (which is why they make databases). It is what you do with the data once you have it which is interesting, and generally unique to a business, and keeps you employed.
This article I agree with, basically a lot of programming is boring.
However if you are good and determined enough you will eventually get to do something interesting.
Find or write a way to do the CRUD portions of the applications faster. Do so, tell your manager you are done with your assigned tasks (make sure they ARE done; tested, documented, etc.), and ask what you should do next.
Just take a look to Django and move on to the interesting coding!!!
(Or RoR, or Grails, or whichever suit best to you, but CRUDS shouldn't be still being coded by hand from scratch)
Modern frameworks can do all the crud for you. Checkout the standalone GORM from the GRAILS project.
When I was an undergraduate, I changed my major from Electrical Engineering to Computer Science because I wanted to write video games. Later on, when I started working on business applications for real money, I learned that I simply enjoy solving problems with code.
You may be in the wrong profession.
In this economy, it might be hard for you to just get another job, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Find some type of work you think you would enjoy, go learn it and look for job opportunities. It doesn't hurt to make some phone calls and go on a few interviews even if you think you're unlikely to get the job. Even better, you could figure out a way to start your own company.
Get into web-dev? Seriously the level of basic crud I have to do building web-apps is pretty low, even when there's a DB.
For CRUD of windows FORM based applications developed in c# .net
RocketFramework is the answer