Is Functional Automation Testing worth the effort? - testing

Do you think that the effort which we put to automated functional tests really impacts?
As most of the time it considered as secondary option in many service based companies and when it comes to delivery, they rely on Manual testing.

Short answer
Yes
Long answer (short version)
Depends
if you have budget and time
if you have people with necessary skills
if you maintain the project in support or if this is a long project in order to reuse the automation suite
how big the project is - in case you don't have enough time later to rerun all manual tests between important releases because there are too many features to cover or you don't have enough people
you have repetitive tasks, project is stable and you don't have major changes with each release
I would say: Automate if you feel it brings value, this is a decision based on each project and team.
You have a lot of tools to choose from, even easy ones with record and play if you need a small suite and you don't have the skills for something complex.

Automated Functional Test Really Impacts?
I would say Yes.
However, its coverage is not as wide as manual testing. Service based company will prefer to use manual testing as they will need to perform a lot of exploratory testing. Just to make sure that there's no introduced issue on the other (possibly) affected area. In my opinion, that kind of testing is not fully supported by automated testing. Unless you have a lot of test cases - which might affect the software maintenance/development cost.
I think regression testing is good for regression testing - to avoid repetitive works for software tester. As in my experience, regression testing will executing the same end-to-end test case.

Related

Shall we consider automating application if it is no longer going to get updates

We have an application in production and there are slim chances that it would get enhanced further. We are curious whether shall we consider automating same. if yes, how it would be beneficial. Thanks!
You need to answer yourself if automation will benefit you. If you don't see benefits from automation - there is none, other than gathering knowledge and experience while developing automation.
Other non-straight benefits:
- robust smoke tests (if update finally comes)
- automated tests are sort of behavior documentation (take a look at BDD)
Making test-automation have positive ROI is probably the hardest step in whole automation. Without experience on what to automate and how to do it, it's negative in most cases. So gathering such knowledge and experience is benefit, which of course comes with a cost. If you have a gut feeling that this case won't benefit you - it probably won't, and you should look for a different place to gather experience.
Good luck
Automation is always a hot topic in our office. I agree with G. Swiec that ROI is going to be your biggest concern. I personally think there is value in having a robust automation suite for an app. Even if you don't plan on enhancing your app further, the tests could help catch bugs you missed or even if dependencies go wonky. If you have decent tools and the hours to do it, I think it could add value. However, these benefits are quickly outweighed if you don't have the man hours to research and implement an automated testing strategy.
You may want to consider other popular avenues like contract testing. Good contract testing can help relieve the need to write big automated e2e tests altogether!

What test methods do you use for developing websites?

There are a lot of testing methods out there i.e. blackbox, graybox, unit, functional, regression etc.
Obviously, a project cannot take on all testing methods. So I asked this question to gain an idea of what test methods to use and why should I use them. You can answer in the following format:
Test Method - what you use it on
e.g.
Unit Testing - I use it for ...(blah, blah)
Regression Testing - I use it for ...(blah, blah)
I was asked to engage into TDD and of course I had to research testing methods. But there is a whole plethora of them and I don't know what to use (because they all sound useful).
1. Unit Testing is used by developers to ensure unit code he wrote is correct. This is usually white box testing as well as some level of black box testing.
2. Regression Testing is a functional testing used by testers to ensure that new changes in system has not broken any of existing functionality
3. Functional testing is testing conducted on a complete, integrated system to evaluate the system's compliance with its specified requirements. Functionality testing falls within the scope of black box testing, and as such, should require no knowledge of the inner design of the code or logic
.
This Test-driven development and Feature Driven Development wiki articles will be of great help for you.
For TDD you need to follow following process:
Document feature (or use case) that
you need to implement or enhance
in your application that
currently does not exists.
Write set of functional test
cases that can ensure above
feature (from step 1) works. You may need to
write multiple test cases for
above feature to test all different
possible work flows.
Write code to implement above feature (from step 1).
Test this code using test cases you
had written earlier (in step 2). The actual
testing can be manual but I would recommend to create automated tests
if possible.
If all test cases pass, you are good to
go. If not, you need to update code (go back to step 3)
so as to make the test case pass.
TDD is to ensure that functional test cases which were written before you coded should work and does not matter how code was implemented.
There is no "right" or "wrong" in testing. Testing is an art and what you should choose and how well it works out for you depends a lot from project to project and your experience.
But as a professional Test Expert my suggestion is that you have a healthy mix of automated and manual testing.
(Examples below are in PHP but you can easily find the correct examples for what ever langauge/framework you are using)
AUTOMATED TESTING
Unit Testing
Use PHPUnit to test your classes, functions and interaction between them.
http://phpunit.sourceforge.net/
Automated Functional Testing
If it's possible you should automate a lot of the functional testing. Some frame works have functional testing built into them. Otherwise you have to use a tool for it. If you are developing web sites/applications you might want to look at Selenium.
http://www.webinade.com/web-development/functional-testing-in-php-using-selenium-ide
Continuous Integration
Use CI to make sure all your automated tests run every time someone in your team makes a commit to the project.
http://martinfowler.com/articles/continuousIntegration.html
MANUAL TESTING
As much as I love automated testing it is, IMHO, not a substitute for manual testing. The main reason being that an automated can only do what it is told and only verify what it has been informed to view as pass/fail. A human can use it's intelligence to find faults and raise questions that appear while testing something else.
Exploratory Testing
ET is a very low cost and effective way to find defects in a project. It take advantage of the intelligence of a human being and a teaches the testers/developers more about the project than any other testing technique i know of. Doing an ET session aimed at every feature deployed in the test environment is not only an effective way to find problems fast, but also a good way to learn and fun!
http://www.satisfice.com/articles/et-article.pdf
This answer is (almost) identical to one that I gave to another question. Check out that question since it had some other good answers that might help you.
How can we decide which testing method can be used?
I usually do the following things:
Page consistency in case of multi-page web sties.
Testing the database connections.
Testing the functionalities that can be affected by the change I just made.
I test functions with sample input to make sure they work fine (especially those that are algorithm-like).
In some cases I implement features very simply hard-coding most of the settings then implement the settings later, testing after implementing every setting.
Most of these apply to applications, too.
Well before going to the answer i would like to clear testing concept about multiple methods.
There are six main testing types which cover all most all testing methods.
Black Box Testing
White Box Testing
Grey Box Testing
Functional Testing
Integration Testing
Usability Testing
Almost all Testing methods lies under these types, you can also use some testing method in multiple types like you can use Smoke testing in black box or white box approach on the basis of resources available to test.
So for testing a web site completely you need to use at least following testing methods on the basis of resources available to test. These are at least methods which should be used to test a web site, but there may be some more imp methods on the basic of nature of website.
Requirement Testing
Smock Testing
System Testing
Integration Testing
Regression Testing
Security Testing
Performance & Load Testing
Deployment Testing
You should at least use all of above (8) testing methods to test a web site no matter what testing type you are focusing. You can automate you test in some areas and you can do this manually it all depends upon the resources availability.
There is specifically no hard and fast rule to follow any testing type or any method. As you know "Testing Is An ART" so art don't have rules or boundaries. Its totally up to you What you use to test and how.......
Hope you got the answer of question.
Selenium is very good for testing websites.
The answer depends on the Web framework used (if any). Django for example has built-in testing functions.
For PHP (or functional web testing), SimpleTest is pretty good and well... simple. It support Unit Testing (PHP only) and Web Testing. Tests can run in the IDE (Eclipse), or in the browser (meaning on your server).
The other answers posted so far focus on unit/functional/performance/etc. testing, and they are all reasonable.
However, one the key questions you should ask is, "how effective is my testing?".
This is often answered with test coverage tools, that determine which parts of your application actually get exercised by some set of tests. The ideal test coverage tool lets you test your application by any method you can imagine (including all the standard answers above) and will then report what part and what percentage of your code was exercised. Most importantly, it will tell you what code you did not exercise. You can then inspect that code and decide if more testing is warranted, or if you don't care. If the untested code has to do with "disk full error handling" and you belive that 1TB disks are common, you might decide to ignore that. If the untested code is the input validation logic leading to SQL queries, you might decide that you must test that logic to ensure that no SQL injection attacks can occur.
What test coverage tools let you do it to make a rational decision that you have tested adequately, using data about what parts of your code has been exercised. So regardless of how you test, best practices indicates you should also do test coverage analysis.
Test coverage tools can be obtained from a variety of sources. SD provides a family of test coverage tools that handle C, C++, Java, C#, PHP and COBOL, all of which are used to support web site testing in various ways.

Is there a right way to implement a continuous improvement (AKA software hardening) process?

Each release it seems that our customers find a few old issues with our software. It makes it look like every release has multiple bugs, when in reality our new code is generally solid.
We have tried to implement some additional testing where we have testers do several hours of monthly regression testing on a single app each month in an effort to stay ahead of small issues. We refer to this process as our Software Hardening process, but it does not seem like we are catching enough of the bugs and it feels like a very backburner process since there is always new code to write.
Is there a trick to this kind of testing? Do I need to target one specific feature at a time?
When you develop your testing procedures, you may want to implement these kind of tests:
unit testing (testing invididual components of your project to test their functionality), these tests are important because they allow you to pinpoint where in the software the error may come from. Basically in these tests you will test a single functionality and use mock objects to simulate the behavior, return value of other objects/entities.
regression testing, which you mentioned
characterization testing, one example could be running automatically the program on automatically generated input (simulating the user input), storing the results and compare the results of every version against these results.
At the beginning this will be very heavy to put in place, but with more releases and more bugs fixes being added to the automated non-regression tests, you should be starting to save time.
It is very important that you do not fall in the trap of designing huge numbers of dumb tests. Testing should make your life easier, if you spend too much time understanding where the tests have broken you should redesign the tests such as they give you better messages/understanding of the problem so you can locate the issue quickly.
Depending of your environment, these tests can be linked to the development process.
In my environment, we use SVN for versioning, a bot runs the tests against every revision and returns the failing tests and messages with the name of the revision which broke it and the contributor (his login).
EDIT:
In my environment, we use a combination of C++ and C# to deliver analytics used in Finance, the code was C++ and is quite old while we are trying to migrate the interfaces toward C# and keep the core of the analytics in C++ (mainly because of speed requirements)
Most of the C++ tests are hand-written unit tests and regression tests.
On the C# side we are using NUnit for unit testing. We have a couple of general tests.
We have a 0 warnings policy, we explicitely forbid people to commit code which is generating warnings unless they can justify why it is useful to bypass the warning for this part of the code. We have as well conventions about exception safety, the use of design patterns and many other aspects.
Setting explicitely conventions and best practices is another way to improve the quality of your code.
Is there a trick to this kind of testing?
You said, "we have testers do several hours of monthly regression testing on a single app each month in an effort to stay ahead of small issues."
I guess that by "regression testing" you mean "manually exercising old features".
You ought to decide whether you're looking for old bugs which have never been found before (which means, running tests which you've never run before); or, whether you're repeating previously-run tests to verify that previously-tested functionality is unchanged. These are two opposite things.
"Regression testing" implies to me that you're doing the latter.
If the problem is that "customers find a few old issues with our software" then either your customers are running tests which you've never run before (in which case, to find these problems you need to run new tests of old software), or they're finding bugs which you have previous tested and found, but which you apparently never fixed after you found them.
Do I need to target one specific feature at a time?
What are you trying to do, exactly:
Find bugs before customers find them?
Convince customers that there's little wrong with the new development?
Spend as little time as possible on testing?
Very general advice is that bugs live in families: so when you find a bug, look for its parents and siblings and cousins, for example:
You might have this exact same bug in other modules
This module might be buggier than other modules (written by somone on an off day, perhaps), so look for every other kind of bug in this module
Perhaps this is one of a class of problems (performance problems, or low-memory problems) which suggests a whole area (or whole type of requirement) which needs better test coverage
Other advice is that it's to do with managing customer expectations: you said, "It makes it look like every release has multiple bugs, when in reality our new code is generally solid" as if the real problem is the mistaken perception that the bug is newly-written.
it feels like a very backburner process since there is always new code to write
Software develoment doesn't happen in the background, on a burner: either someone is working on it, or they're not. Management must to decide whether to assign anyone to this task (i.e. look for existing previously-unfound bugs, or fix-previously-found-but-not-yet-reported bugs), or whether they prefer to concentrate on new development and let the customers do the bug-detecting.
Edit: It's worth mentioning that testing isn't the only way to find bugs. There's also:
Informal design reviews (35%)
Formal design inspections (55%)
Informal code reviews (25%)
Formal code inspections (60%)
Personal desk checking of code (40%)
Unit test (30%)
Component test (30%)
Integration test (35%)
Regression test (25%)
System test (40%)
Low volume beta test (<10 sites) (35%)
High-volume beta test (>1000 sites) (70%)
The percentage which I put next to each is a measure of the defect-removal rate for each technique (taken from page 243 of McConnel's Software Estimation book). The two most effective techniques seem to be formal code inspection, and high-volume beta tests.
So it might be a good idea to introduce formal code reviews: that might be better at detecting defects than black-box testing is.
As soon as your coding ends, first you should go for the unit testing. THere you will get some bugs which should be fixed and you should perform another round of unit testing to find if new bugs came or not. After you finish Unit testing you should go for functional testing.
YOu mentioned here that your tester are performing regression testing on a monthly basis and still there are old bugs coming out. So it is better to sit with the tester and review the test cases as i feel that they need to be updated regularly. Also during review put stress on which module or functionality the bugs are coming. Stress on those areas and add more test cases in those areas and add those in your rgression test cases so that once new build comes those test cases should be run.
YOu can try one more thing if your project is a long term one then you should talk with the tester to automate the regression test cases. It will help you to run the test cases at off time like night and in the next day you will get the results. Also the regression test cases should be updated as the major problem comes when regression test cases are not updated regularly and by running old regression test cases and new progression test cases you are missing few modules that are not tested.
There is a lot of talk here about unit testing and I couldn't agree more. I hope that Josh understands that unit testing is a mechanized process. I disagree with PJ in that unit tests should be written before coding the app and not after. This is called TDD or Test Driven Development.
Some people write unit tests that exercise the middle tier code but neglect testing the GUI code. That is imprudent. You should write unit tests for all tiers in your application.
Since unit tests are also code, there is the question of QA for your test suite. Is the code coverage good? Are there false positives/negatives errors in the unit tests? Are you testing for the right things? How do you assure the quality of your quality assurance process? Basically, the answer to that comes down to peer review and cultural values. Everyone on the team has to be committed to good testing hygiene.
The earlier a bug is introduced into your system, the longer it stays in the system, the harder and more costly it is to remove it. That is why you should look into what is known as continuous integration. When set up correctly, continuous integration means that the project gets compiled and run with the full suite of unit tests shortly after you check in your changes for the day.
If the build or unit tests fail, then the offending coder and the build master gets a notification. They work with the team lead to determine what the most appropriate course correction should be. Sometimes it is just as simple as fix the problem and check the fix in. A build master and team lead needs to get involved to identify any overarching patterns that require additional intervention. For example, a family crisis can cause a developer's coding quality to bottom out. Without CI and some managerial oversight, it might take six months of bugs before you realize what is going on and take corrective action.
You didn't mention what your development environment is. If yours were a J2EE shop, then I would suggest that you look into the following.
CruiseControl for continuous integration
Subversion for the source code versioning control because it integrates well with CruiseControl
Spring because DI makes it easier to mechanize the unit testing for continuous integration purposes
JUnit for unit testing the middle tier
HttpUnit for unit testing the GUI
Apache JMeter for stress testing
Going back and implementing a testing strategy for (all) existing stuff is a pain. It's long, it's difficult, and no one will want to do it. However, I strongly recommend that as a new bug comes in, a test be developed around that bug. If you don't get a bug report on it, then either is (a) works or (b) the user doesn't care that it doesn't work. Either way, a test is a waste of your time.
As soon as its identified, write a test that goes red. Right now. Then fix the bug. Confirm that it is fixed. Confirm that the test is now green. Repeat as new bugs come in.
Sorry to say that but maybe you're just not testing enough, or too late, or both.

Role of Testers in Agile? [closed]

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I work in a team which has been doing the traditional waterfall method of development for many years. Recently, we've been told that future projects are going to be moving towards an agile (particularly Scrum) methodology. It so happens that my project will be one of the first, so we will essentially be guinea pigs for the next few months to iron out what it takes to make the transition.
The project itself is in a very early stage and we would usually be many months away from releasing anything to the testing team, but now we are going to be working directly with them up front. As a result, I'm concerned as to the role of the testers in such a project at this stage. I have several questions/concerns which hopefully some experienced agile developers could answer:
While a developer is coding a task, it is impossible for a tester to test it (it doesn't exist yet). What then is the role of a tester at this point
Is the tester now involved in unit testing? Is this done parallel to black box testing?
What does the tester do during a sprint where primarily infrastructural changes have been made, that may only be testable in unit testing?
How do the traditional test team members function in your agile project?
Keeping testers busy tends to get easier as a project matures (there is more to test!), but the following points apply in the early stages too:
Testers can prepare their test plans, test cases, and automated tests for the user stories before (or while) they are implemented. This helps the team discover any inconsistency or ambiguity in the user stories even before the developers write any code.
In my personal experience, testers don't have any involvement in unit testing; they only test code that passes all of the automated unit, integration and acceptance tests, which are all written by the developers. This split may be different elsewhere, though; for example your testers could be writing automated acceptance tests. Unit tests really should be written by the developers, however, as they are written in tandem with the code.
Their workload will vary between sprints, but regression tests still need to be run on these changes...
You may also find that having the testers spend the first couple of days of each sprint testing the tasks from the previous sprint may help, however I think it's better to get them to nail down the things that the developers are going to be working on by writing their test plans.
Ideally QA and testers should be involved if not from the day one then from very early stages of a software development project, regardless of the process used (waterfall or agile). The test team will need to:
Ensure that project or sprint requirements are clear, measurable and testable. In an ideal world each requirement will have a fit criterion written down at this stage. Determine what information needs to be automatically logged to troubleshoot any defects.
Prepare a project specific test strategy and determine which QA steps are going to be required and at which project stages: integration, stress, compatibility, penetration, conformance, usability, performance, beta testing etc. Determine acceptable defect thresholds and work out classification system for defect severity, specify guidelines for defect reporting.
Specify, arrange and prepare test environment: test infrastructure and mock services as necessary; obtain, sanitise and prepare test data; write scripts to quickly refresh test environment when necessary; establish processes for defect tracking, communication and resolution; prepare for recruitment or recruit users for beta, usability or acceptance testing.
Supply all the relevant information to form project schedule, work break down structure and resource plan.
Write test scripts.
Bring themselves up to speed with the problem domain, system AS-IS and proposed solution.
Usually this is not a question of whether a test team may provide any useful input into the project on an early stage, nor if such an input is beneficial. It is a question, however, of the extent to which an organisation can afford the aforementioned activities. There is always a trade off between available time, budget and resource versus the level of known quality of the end result.
Good post. I was in the same situation about 3 years ago and the transition from waterfall to agile was tricky. I encountered many pain points in the move but once I overcame them and my role had changed I realised that this way of working really suits testing.
The common myth that testers are not required is easily dispelled.
1. While a developer is coding a task, it is impossible for a tester to test it (it doesn't exist yet). What then is the role of a tester at this point
In my experience the tester could be working with the customer to fine tune the stories in the sprint.
They are usually working with the developers to fine tune the code that they are delivering. i.e. advising on edge cases, flows, errors etc.
They can often be involved in designing the tests that the coder will write to perform TDD.
If the agile team is fairly advanced then the tester would normally be writing the ATDD (Acceptance Test Driven Development) tests. These could be in a tool such as Fitnesse or Robot Framework or they could be more advanced ruby tests or even some other programming language. Or in some cases, simple record and playback can often be beneficial for a small number of tests.
They would obviously be writing tests and planning some exploratory testing scenarios or ideas.
The tricky thing to comprehend sometimes for the team is that the story does not have to be complete in order to drop it to the test stack for testing. For example the coders could drop a screen with half of the fields planned on it. The tester could test this half whilst the other half is being coded and hence feedback in with early test results. Testing doesn't have to take place on "finished" stories.
2. Is the tester now involved in unit testing? Is this done parallel to black box testing?
Ideally the coders would be doing TDD. Writing the test and then writing the code to make the test pass. And if the coders are wanting really good TDD then they would be liasing with the tester to think up the tests.
If TDD is not being done then the coders should be writing unit tests at the same time as coding. It probably shouldn't be an after thought or after task after the software has been dropped. The whole point of tests is to test the software is correct to avoid wasting time later down the line. It's all about instant feedback.
3. What does the tester do during a sprint where primarily infrastructural changes have been made, that may only be testable in unit testing?
Ideally the tester would be working with the team and the customer (who by the way, is part of the team!) to define the planned stories and build in some good, detailed acceptance critiera. This is invaluable and can save loads of time later down the line. The tester could also be learning new automation techniques, planning test environments, helping to document the outcome of the planning.
Ideally each story in the sprint would be testable in some way, shape or form. This doesn't mean it should be by the test team, but should be testable. So the tester could be working with the rest of the team working out how to make sure stories are testable.
I post some agile tips here : http://thesocialtester.posterous.com/
Hope this helps you out
Rob..
Just a few thoughts, definitely incomplete:
While the developer is coding a task, the tester can be examining the specifications (or requests from the customer, if there are no formal specs) and writing the test plan. This can include a conceptual framework for what needs to be tested, but it should also include formally writing test suites (yes, in code) as well. This can be quite a challenge for teams moving to agile, as a lot of testers are hired without programming skills. (In a lot of places, it seems like it's a requirement to not be able to code.)
The tester can be involved in unit testing, or in a slightly higher scope by testing components or libraries that have a clean interface.
The testers should always be executing regression tests, load tests, and any other kinds of tests that he can think of, as well as writing test suites for the next sprint. It's often the case that testers work one sprint ahead of development (in preparing a test environment), as well as one sprint behind development (in testing what developers just produced).
I saw a good talk on this recently. Basically this team started off doing a fairly standard Scrum process, then transitioned to Kanban and Lean. One of the most important things they did was to gradually erode the distinctions between testers and developers. Testers were involved in writing unit tests and code, developers were bringing in more higher level tests early in development. It was a steep learning curve for the testers, but worth it as the team was building in quality from the start. By now the testers call themselves developers because their work is so integrated in the process of writing code.
At my company we use and endorse Agile. Our QA team members are involved in unit test creation, maintaining the regression testing infrastructure and, just like in waterfall, they also test each feature upon completion.
When doing infrastructural changes, they also participate to make sure that the new infrastructure is testable.
So, from my limited experience, I'll try to answer your points:
If there's nothing to test yet, start setting up a regression/testing infrastructure and make sure that whatever is being done will be testable
Yes, he may do both
Maintains the testing infrastructure and hunts whoever breaks the tests
The most natural approach to testing in an agile environment is in my opinion exploratory testing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploratory_testing.
Doesn't sound words like
According to Cem Kaner & James Bach, exploratory testing is more a [mindset] or "...a way of thinking about testing" than a methodology
or
pair testing
sound familiar to agile developpers. Testers can be involved much earlier in the process than in traditional testing.
1) While a developer is coding a task, it is impossible for a tester to test
it (it doesn't exist yet). What then
is the role of a tester at this point
The tester may still create test plans and have a list of what tests will be created. There may also be the need for the tester to get training if the development involves some off-the-shelf software,e.g. if you are doing a CMS project with Sitecore then the tester should know a few things about Sitecore. There can also be some collaboration of the tester, the developer and the end user or BA to know what are the requirements and expectations so that there isn't the finger pointing that can pop up in vague requirements.
2) Is the tester now involved in unit testing? Is this done parallel to
black box testing?
Not in our case. The tester is doing more integration/user acceptance testing rather than the low-level unit testing. In our case, unit tests come before any QA tests as the developers creating the functionality will create a layer of tests.
3) What does the tester do during a sprint where primarily infrastructural
changes have been made, that may only
be testable in unit testing?
Regression testing! In making infrastructural changes, did anything break? How thorough a testing suite can developers run compared to QA? We had this in a sprint not that long ago where most of the sprint work was plumbing rework so there wasn't much to test other than seeing that things that worked before still work afterward.
In our case, we have testing as one level up from our development environment but still a pre-production environment. The idea is to allow QA a sprint to validate the work done and for any critical or high severity bugs to be found and fixed before a release into staging for final user acceptance testing, so if developers are working on sprint X then QA is validating sprint X-1 and production may have sprint X-2 or earlier running depending on the final UAT and deployment schedule as not every sprint will make it into production after QA gives the OK to move into staging. There are pairing exercises that can happen once a developer is done an initial coding of a task to ensure that both a tester and an end user sign off on what was built. This is our third or fourth version of trying to integrate quality control into the project so it is still a work in progress that has evolved a few times over already.
Like a few other respondents have indicated, Testers should be involved from day one. In Sprint zero they should be involved in ensuring that the Stories the Product Owner is producing are testable (e.g. verifiable once coded) and "acceptable" (i.e. when you go though UAT). Once the Product Backlog is initially populated then the Testers can work on test cases for the Stories slated for the current Sprint, and once there is a product for them to test (Ideally somewhere in your first Sprint) then they can start testing.
If it sounds like there will never be anything to test for a few Sprints, you've got your stories wrong. The aim of a Sprint, even an early one, is to have a thin slice of the eventual system. Focus on "asprin" (i.e. if building a drug prescription system, how do you deliver testable functionality in 2-4 weeks? Build the ones for prescribing an asprin) and "tracer bullets" stories (ones which, when taken in combination touch all the risky parts of the architecture). You'll be amazed what you can hand over to test early on. If testers do end up with spare time, get them to pair program with the developers. It'll build relationships and mutual respect.
The benfits of this approach are many but primarily you test out a good deal of the internal people-processes of your development (handovers from requirements, to development, to test, and also the reverse) and secondarily the whole team (all three disciplines mentioned) sees the benefits of rapid feedback as a result of producing executable software.
It sounds impossible, but I've seen it work. Just make sure you don't bite off too big a chunk to begin with. Let yourselves ease into it and you'll be amazed.

Automatic testing for web based projects

Recently I've came up with the question is it worth at all to spent development time to generate automatic unit test for web based projects? I mean it seems useless at some point because at some point those projects are oriented on interactions with users/clients, so you cannot anticipate the whole possible set of user action so you be able to check the correctness of content showed. Even regression test can hardly be done. So I'm very eager to know to know the opinion of other experienced developers.
Selenium have a good web testing framework
http://seleniumhq.org/
Telerik are also in the process of developing one for web app testing.
http://www.telerik.com/products/web-ui-test-studio.aspx
You cannot anticipate the whole
possible set of user action so you be
able to check the correctness of
content showed.
You can't anticipate all the possible data your code is going to be handed, or all the possible race conditions if it's threaded, and yet you still bother unit testing. Why? Because you can narrow it down a hell of a lot. You can anticipate the sorts of pathological things that will happen. You just have to think about it a bit and get some experience.
User interaction is no different. There are certain things users are going to try and do, pathological or not, and you can anticipate them. Users are just inputting particularly imaginative data. You'll find programmers tend to miss the same sorts of conditions over and over again. I keep a checklist. For example: pump Unicode into everything; put the start date after the end date; enter gibberish data; put tags in everything; leave off the trailing newline; try to enter the same data twice; submit a form, go back and submit it again; take a text file, call it foo.jpg and try to upload it as a picture. You can even write a program to flip switches and push buttons at random, a bad monkey, that'll find all sorts of fun bugs.
Its often as simple as sitting someone down who's unfamiliar with the software and watching them use it. Fight the urge to correct them, just watch them flounder. Its very educational. Steve Krug refers to this as "Advanced Common Sense" and has an excellent book called "Don't Make Me Think" which covers cheap, simple user interaction testing. I highly recommend it. It's a very short and eye opening read.
Finally, the client themselves, if their expectations are properly prepared, can be a fantastic test suite. Be sure they understand its a work in progress, that it will have bugs, that they're helping to make their product better, and that it absolutely should not be used for production data, and let them tinker with the pre-release versions of your product. They'll do all sorts of things you never thought of! They'll be the best and most realistic testing you ever had, FOR FREE! Give them a very simple way to report bugs, preferably just a one button box right on the application which automatically submits their environment and history; the feedback box on Hiveminder is an excellent example. Respond to their bugs quickly and politely (even if its just "thanks for the info") and you'll find they'll be delighted you're so responsive to their needs!
Yes, it is. I just ran into an issue this week with a web site I am working on. I just recently switched-out the data access layer and set up unit tests for my controllers and repositories, but not the UI interactions.
I got bit by a pretty obvious bug that would have been easily caught if I had integration tests. Only through integration tests and UI functionality tests do you find issues with the way different tiers of the application interact with one another.
It really depends on the structure and architecture of your web application. If it contains an application logic layer, then that layer should be easy to unit test with automating tools such as Visual Studio. Also, using a framework that has been designed to enable unit testing, such as ASP.NET MVC, helps alot.
If you're writing a lot of Javascript, there have been a lot of JS testing frameworks that have come around the block recently for unit testing your Javascript.
Other than that, testing the web tier using something like Canoo, HtmlUnit, Selenium, etc. is more a functional or integration test than a unit test. These can be hard to maintain if you have the UI change a lot, but they can really come in handy. Recording Selenium tests is easy and something you could probably get other people (testers) to help you create and maintain. Just know that there is a cost associated with maintaining tests, and it needs to be balanced out.
There are other types of testing that are great for the web tier - fuzz testing especially, but a lot of the good options are commercial tools. One that is open source and plugs into Rails is called Tarantula. Having something like that at the web tier is a nice to have run in a continuous integration process and doesn't require much in the form of maintenance.
Unit tests make sense in TDD process. They do not have much value if you don't do test-first development. However the acceptance test are a big thing for quality of the software. I'd say that acceptance test is a holy grail of the development. Acceptance tests show whether the application satisfies the requirements. How do I know when to stop developing the feature --- only when all my acceptance test pass. Automation of acceptance testing a big thing because I do not have to do it all manualy each time I make changes to the application. After months of development there can be hundreds of test and it becomes unfeasible (sometime impossible) to run all the test manually. Then how do I know if my application still works?
Automation of acceptance tests can be implemented with use of xUnit test frameworks, which makes a confusion here. If I create an acceptance test using phpUnit or httpUnit is it a unit test? My answer is no. It does not matter what tool I use to create and run test. Acceptance test is the one that show whether the features is working IAW requirements. Unit test show whether a class (or function) satisfies the developer's implementation idea. Unit test has no value for the client (user). Acceptance test has a lot of value to the client (and thus to developer, remember Customer Affinity)
So I strongly recommend creating automated acceptance tests for the web application.
The good frameworks for the acceptance test are:
Sahi (sahi.co.in)
Silenium
Simpletest (I't a unit-test framework for php, but includes the browser object that can be used for acceptance testing).
However
You have mentioned that web-site is all about user interaction and thus test automation will not solve the whole problem of usability. For example: testing framework shows that all tests pass, however the user cannot see the form or link or other page element due to accidental style="display:none" in the div. The automated tests pass because the div is present in the document and test framework can "see" it. But the user cannot. And the manual test would fail.
Thus, all web-applications needs manual testing. The automated test can reduce the test workload drastically (80%), but manual test are as well significant for the quality of the resulting software.
As for the Unit testing and TDD -- it make the code quality. It is beneficial to the developers and for the future of the project (i.e. for projects longer that a couple of month). However TDD requires skill. If you have the skill -- use it. If you don't consider gaining the skill, but mind the time it will take to gain. It usually takes about 3 - 6 month to start creating a good Unit tests and code. If you project will last more that a year, I recommend studding TDD and investing time in proper development environment.
I've created a web test solution (docker + cucumber); it's very basic and simple, so easy to understand and modify / improve. It lies in the web directory;
my solution: https://github.com/gyulaweber/hosting_tests