I work in a small organization that has built an enterprise SaaS solution. Up until this point our workflows have had no programmatic interface. We're moving to a model that will allow for an end user to do anything programmatically that can be done in the UI. I'm looking for suggestions in terms of the language/framework that you would use to build that programmatic layer.
From an organizational perspective I would like the current UI team to also have ownership of the API. That team is familiar with PHP, Rails, and Javascript. Our current back-end code is written in Scala. I'm leaning toward not doing the APIs in Scala because it doesn't seem like the right tool for the job and the lack of subject matter expertise around it on the UI team.
From a functionality perspective most of the APIs will be fairly simple database operations (CRUD) with perhaps some simplistic business logic applied on top (search for example).
I'm a bit intrigued by using Node.js for this as everyone on the team is really strong with Javascript. That being said I don't just want to hop on the semi-new technology bandwagon. Because it is enterprise software, unit testing frameworks, reusability, and extendability are all important considerations as well.
Any suggestions?
I realize this question was about technology options, but there's a fundamental concern that seems really important to call out:
From an organizational perspective I would like the current UI team to also have ownership of the API.
While this sounds like a logical approach, it may not work out well unless you're UI team is made up of really solid engineers. SaaS API development is arguably one of the most challenging aspects of modern software design. A great API will make everyone's lives easier, while a poor API will bring your system to its knees and leave you completely clueless as to why.
As a quick example, if you don't solve the end user's needs in the right way, you're likely to force a number of n+1 problems on them (and thus, on you.)
There is a bunch of great material out there about how to design great APIs and even more about the pitfalls of designing a bad one. Generally speaking, most of the UI devs I've worked with, particularly ones that are only familiar with scripting languages, are not people I would entrust to API design. Instead I would utilize them as customers (in a Scrum sense) who guide the design by describing end-user needs.
I faced something like this on a previous project, where we ended up going with a combo of Esper and our own DSL written using ANTLR 3.0. Our biggest concern with using a fully funcional runtime, was sandboxing the user's code.
That said, I think Node.JS would be one of the easier ones to sandbox and it fits your needs. Maybe using something like this: http://gf3.github.com/sandbox/ or looking into Cloud9's code to see how they keep things safe. I also like that with Node.js you could give your users a pretty niffy editor using Ace.
Also check out this post: How to run user-submitted scripts securely in a node.js sandbox?
Related
CakePHP Applications being made in our company tends to become unmaintainable as it becomes more complex. I figured that one specific reason is inheritance which makes the functions in child classes depends a lot on it's parent classes and vice-versa (implementing template method pattern). Why is CakePHP designed this way and not friendly in using Dependency Injection, Strategies, or Factory patterns?
There is not such a bad design as you claim in the framework. Sure, there are probably things that could be done better but I would like to see a more substantial critic including solid arguments and examples. I assume you're not using the framework as it was intended.
Let me quote the first paragraph from this page.
According to Eric Evans, Domain-driven design (DDD) is not a technology or a methodology. It’s a different way of thinking about how to organize your applications and structure your code. This way of thinking complements very well the popular MVC architecture. The domain model provides a structural view of the system. Most of the time, applications don’t change, what changes is the domain. MVC, however, doesn’t really tell you how your model should be structured. That’s why some frameworks don’t force you to use a specific model structure, instead, they let your model evolve as your knowledge and expertise grows.
You're not showing code (for a reason?) so I guess your problem comes from stuffing everything into the table objects in src/Model/Table/ or doing something similar.
But you're totally free to create a folder structure like
/src/Service
/src/Model/Domain
and then simply instantiate services as you need them in your controller actions. A service could be for example \App\Service\User\Registration and using objects from App\Model\Domain\User.
I agree that the framework in fact doesn't provide any recommendation or template structure for how this could look like. For exactly this topic there is a discussion going on here. Because of a lack of such a structure I've started working on a plugin that provides this. The plugin doesn't require but suggest the usage of DI containers for the people who want them.
Given the whole fancy topic around DI and DDD so far I would say there is not the one way to get things right but different paths as long as the code is easy to maintain. And honestly, as long as this goal is archived I really don't care about how you call it. :) I think many people tend do make this topic to academic instead of simply trying to be practical.
Not everybody is even needing that structure. It depends on if you're building a RAD CRUD application or a more complex app. Not every application needs a DDD approach. There are so many shades of gray when it comes to design the business layer, no matter how the framework would do it, somebody would always complain about it.
I personally almost never missed a DI container in CakePHP, not even in the biggest project having more than ~560 database tables which was a hospital management solution and it just worked well.
I would suggest you to ask a more specific question about your approach how you structured your code and showing your structure and code and then asking for advice on how to improve it instead of blaming the tool you're using in the first place without providing context.
Unfortunately CakePHP v3 can not compare to the Zend3/Laminas, Symfony or Laravel.It is 7-8 years behind the other frameworks.If you are using cake for years or it is your 1st and last framework it is normal to not realise that.But if you have to use it after Zend 3... cake seems like really bad ecosystem.
Bad documentation
Bad ORM
Poor Routing system
Bad Templating engine
Bad idea to mix Data Mapper and Active Record
DIC is totally missing
Components - not good but not terrible
...
And many more thinks that should not be underestimated like - lack of GOOD tutorials, pluigns/addons/packages
The above thinks make developers to follow bad practices that adds a lot of technical depth.
If you care just for - it works! But not how it works and why it is bad, cake will fit ok for you.
Cake can not scale as good as Symfony/Laminas if you are doing big project.(yea AWS/GC can help for scaling a lot of thinks but not for scaling source code)
Cake doesn't allow you rapid development like Laravel/Symfony for decent project.
I'm wondering who and WHY would start a new project today using Cake as it has zero benefits over the other frameworks.
Probably only devs who used only Cake for last decade and do not want to start learning new technologies or devs that thinks SOLID is just a fancy hype with zero benefits like design patterns, DRY and KISS
CakePHP framework supplies user interaction with databases using Active record, it means that exist a high coupling between business layer and database layer which has negative effects in unit testing and because of that the framework is not friendly with Dependency Injection. The same issue happens with Factory pattern, high coupling mentioned before makes more difficult use simulated objects in unit testing.
Hope it helps!
Alberto
I'm working on a new application at work, and a manager is really pushing the concept of a business rules management system (BRMS) and a workflow management system, and I'm trying to figure out the best way of integrating these types of tools.
With regard to these types of systems, I don't know what I don't know, so I'm trying to get other perspectives and information.
The thing the manager is looking for is the ability for business users to change business rules or process flows without the need for developer time (or with minimal developer time).
A BRMS is easier for me to understand when I think about how it would fit into code. It's pretty straightforward, and I can see how the logic could reside completely outside of an application. Since I haven't done much with these types of systems, I would appreciate any info on good products that integrate with .NET, or info on experiences. (We're looking at InRule, Blaze Advisor and ILOG Rules)
What I'm less sure of is the workflow part.
Workflow Foundation makes sense to me, as it's a known, defined workflow that's integrated into application code, but the manager isn't looking for a foundation, he wants a tool that lets business users define and update workflows. Any type of system that allows end users to dynamically create workflows makes less sense to me.
I was asked to look at WorkflowGen as an example of a workflow engine. To me, it looks like it's completely self-contained unless a developer writes .NET code to interface with back-end systems.
I can understand a workflow system that allows users to define specific, limited actions, like "e-mail so and so" and "require so and so to approve," but I have no idea how a workflow system that's supposed to dynamically define application flow can be integrated in to an application, or even how the more simplistic system I just described can display and update back-end data.
I'm pushing for use cases so I can better understand what my manger is looking for in terms of moving these types of logic outside of application code, but in the meantime, I'd appreciate any info anyone has on these types of systems. As I said, I don't know what I don't know, and our business users seem to think our new application should support these types of tools. I want to make sure I'm limiting our functionality due to my lack of knowledge.
Thanks for any information or advice.
If you work in .NET: .NET Workflow Foundation. It's complex, true, but it's free and has everything your manager asks for. Business rules part will require some getting used to, the workflow will need some initial investment in building your own "environment" but, when you look at all this from above, WF.NET still gives more than what others has to offer. InRule is a cheap product that can't really do much, Blaze is way too complex, way too expensive and not really for "non-programmers"; ILOG is, too, not for "business users".
i have seen people to more concerned about the type of work they do. they think system side work is better compared to application side. so i wanted to know the pros and cons of both.
please i didn't find the proper answer anywhere so i am asking here.
System Side Pros:
Get to do all of the cool things that we learned in computer science: parsing, searching, sorting, threading, date/time handling, computations.
Interface specs more limited easier to understand and wrap our brains around. Our systems talk to other systems and programmers, not those really ambiguous regular people.
Puzzle solving with well defined puzzles.
System Side Cons:
Less interaction with the real world.
Application Side Pros:
Large scale puzzle solving where the puzzles are often niether well defined nor do they have stable scopes.
Get to learn lots of business areas outside of our areas of expertise.
Get to learn how people and software interact.
Learn to abstract and model in such away that we can support an ever changing world due to regulatory changes, market changes, user desires.
Application Side Cons:
Project scopes are often not well defined.
I'm sure there is a lot more.
Better could mean "More Fun" or "Higher Status" or "Higher Pay" or "Greater Job Security" or many other things.
I have seen situations where the UI construction is outsourced while the core services are seen as mission critical and kept in house. So in that organisation it seems clear what is most valued.
As we get towards UI development the skill sets can shift a bit, the aesthetics and visual skills, concerns for usability start to be more valuable. Folks who work mostly on services and middleware may feel less comfortable in that UI space. Hence if you talk to the server-side guys they might say "More Fun here".
Maybe you could survey the job market and compare salaries of UI developers and server-side developers.
My opinion: there are fundamentally different mind-sets between working in "Application" and "Service". Some individuals feel much more at home in one or the other, and great developers in either have fulfilling careers. Some (but not all) developers seem to be able to seemlessly shift between the mind sets.
There is no universal "better" - for example if you are into UI development, sorry that's "User Experience" now isn't it? If your a UX wizard then you're really not going to enjoy working on development which focuses on things that tend to have very little to do with the front end user.
Development is a very broad church - although the majority of the core skills (fundamentally problem solving and implementing those solutions) are common the specifics vary substanially - games developers require a particular mindset that in places is substantially different to that of a developer doing line of business back office systems.
Within the same web application, front end client work in the browser can be utterly different to that required in the back end model.
Within almost every area there are going to be superstars who earn shedloads of money (this, I suspect, is the mythical "better") but most of us have to put our heads down and get on with it regardless of what area we work in.
Do what you enjoy...
I maintain in-house business software for a living. Technologies included here are Java, Struts, Spring MVC, jsp, wicket, and a few others. I think it's time to branch out and learn something new.
I am hoping to show myself with a side project that writing code can, in fact, be fun (in some plane of the universe), and that I haven't wasted the past few years of my life doing something I can never love or have fun doing.
I'm thinking of having a fantasy-sport style web site - obviously much, much smaller with regards to features and all that. I was hoping I could get some recommendations for the newest or cleanest frameworks that will allow me to accomplish such a project. My goals are to work on following a real development process instead of just hacking a bunch of crap into an already crappy application on a daily basis. Also I will strive to follow best practices and create good, clean, understandable code that I don't shudder at the thought of having to modify. It's hard to do this at work, because the software I work on has already been developed by 50 guys from various continents that never took the time to design anything before jumping into coding.
I would need a simple database to store users and their picks for each event. Also at my job, the login security is all handled by another group completely. Do people usually write their own login systems from scratch, or are there open source utilities for that as well? I'd be interested in those, as my site will need to have a user login system, and be secure.
I had ruby and rails installed on my computer the last time I conjured up the motivation for this idea, but that was nixed by a hard drive crash. I figured before I just jumped straight to rails for this idea, that I would get a few other opinions off stack overflow to see if people liked something else that I didn't know about.
Also, if anyone has any good resources for how to think about OO design, I could brush up on that as well. I'm looking for anything that will help me to just think about the design from the start and how to get my thoughts into a diagram. I'd like it not to focus so much on patterns and other principles as much as just how to get started and actually put my thoughts in a professional document that I can use to build my project from. I tried to practice this prior to a card game that I wrote, and it got way too complicated way too fast, and the results ended up being not so great.
I’m more familiar with Django, although like you, the only frameworks I’ve really used are the Java/Struts/Spring/JSP, etc. The automatically generated administration interface in Django is amazing coming from these, and it comes with its own authentication system too.
Unless you’re especially predisposed against Python, I think you should give it a go.
Ruby on Rails, Python on Django, PHP on (not sure -- maybe Zend? or CakePHP?), are probably the most popular frameworks if I understand correctly that you want to learn a new language. If I misunderstood you, and you'd rather stick with Java, GWT seems pretty cool -- it's the only real way to avoid "explicitly" writing Javascript (if you DO want to learn and use some Javascript, I personally am in love with Dojo, but jQuery is substantially more popular: those are two good popular frameworks you should consider, though there are others of course, like for all languages I mentioned so far).
One advantage of picking Python and Django is that they work particularly well with Google App Engine (and with Dojo, too, thanks to the cool dojango project!) -- GAE supports JVM too, now, but it's supported Python for a much longer time and the Python side of it is more solid and complete at this time. So, if that's the technology stack you choose, you get to develop and deploy for free, on highly scalable infrastructure, at least until your app gets more than a few million page views per month -- and you really minimize your system adminsitration hassles, all you do is basically to code and write one simple configuration file.
What do you prefer (from your developer's point of view) when it comes to implement a business process?
A Business Process Management System (BPMS) or just your favorite IDE with the needed tools and frameworks (a reporting tool for example)?
What is from your point of view the greatest Benefit of a BPMS compared to an IDE with your personal tools and frameworks?
OK. Maybe I should be more specific... I got to know one specific BPMS which should make it easy to implement a business process by configuring rules. But for me as a developer it is hard to work with the system. I would like to work with text files which I can refactor and I would like to be able to choose the right technology or framework for the job I have to do. Instead the system forces me to configure.
There are rules where I can use java, but even then I have to stick to the systems editor without intellisense etc.
So this leads me to the answer of my own question - I would like to use the tools I am used to instead of having to learn how to work with a BPMS (at least the one I know) because it limits me more than it helps. The BPMS I know is a framework from which it is hard to escape! At this time, I would prefer a framework like Grail over any BPMS I know.
So maybe the more specific question is: do you feel the same or are there BPMSes which support you in beeing a developer and think like a developer or do most of them force you to do your job a different way?
In my experience the development environments provided by BPMS systems are third rate, unproductive, and practically force you to write hard to maintain, poorly designed code (due to their limitations). Almost all the "features" (UI, integrations, etc) provided by the BPMS system I'm familiar with (the one sold by that company named for its database) were not worth the money we paid.
If you're forced to use BPMS, as a developer, my advice would be to build as much of your application in a conventional development environment, such as Java or .Net, build as little as possible in the BPMS environment itself, and integrate the two. The only things that should go in the BPMS is the minimum to make the business process work.
Not sure what exactly you ask, but the choice BPM vs. plain programming will depend on the requirements. A "business process" is a relatively vague term in software engineering.
Here are a few criterion to evaluate your needs:
complexity of the rules - Are the decisions/rules embodied in your process simple, complicated, configurable, hard-coded?
volatility of the process - How frequently does your process change? Who should be able to make the change?
integration need - Is your process realized using multiple heterogenous services, or is all implemented in the same language?
synchronous/asynchrounous - Is your process "long-running" with the need to handle asynchronous actions?
human tasks - Does your process involves human interaction, with task being assigned/routed to people according to their roles/responsibilities?
monitoring of the process - What is the level of control you want on the existing process instances being executed? Do you need to audit the actions, etc. ?
error handling - Depending on the previous points, how do you plan to deal with errors, or retry of faulty process execution?
Depending on the answer to these questions, you may realize that your process is closer to a simple state chart with a few actions and decisions that can be executed in a sequence, or you may realize that you need something more elaborated, and that you don't want to re-implement all that yourself.
Between plain programming and a full-fledge BPM solution (e.g. Oracle BPM suite which contains BPEL, rule engine, etc.), there are intermediate solutions such as jBPM or Windows Workflow Foundation and probably a lot of others. These intermediate solution are frequently good trade-off.
I have worked with Biztalk in the past and more recently with JBPM. My opinion is biased against BPMs for the following reasons:
Steep learning curve : To make a process work, I have to understand how the system and the editor works. It is hard enough for a developer to understand the system, let alone a business user. The drag and drop and visual representation is a great demo tool. It certainly impresses managers (who ultimately pay for it), but a developer's productivity just drops.
Non developers changing the workflow : I haven't seen one BPM solution do it flawlessly. Though it doesn't look like code, right click on the box and you do have to put some code, otherwise it is not going to work. So you definitely need a developer to do it. The best part is that it is neither developer friendly nor business user friendly, just demo user friendly.
Testablity and refactoring : It is virtually impossible to test drive a BPMS. You do have 'unit test frameworks' advertised, but most of them are hacks and hard to use. Recently I tried the JBPM one; I ended up writing a lot of glue code and fake workflow handlers to make it work. The deal breaker for me though is refactoring. If the business radically changes it's mind about how a business process should look, then good luck re-arranging the boxes, because just re-arranging them won't work, all the variables bound to the boxes also need to be re-arranged. I would prefer the power of the IDE and tests to refactor my business process.
If your application has workflow, then you could try a workflow library (with or without persistent state). It will still manage your workflows without all the bloat that comes with a BPM. If a business user needs to understand the code, then let the business prepare good process flowcharts and translate them into good domain driven code. Use cucumber style acceptance tests to make bring the developers and business together. A BPM is just something that tries to do too many things and ends up doing all those things badly.
BPMS-- a lot of common business case, use case are already implemented. So you just have to know how to use it. For common workflow, you don't even need to write a single line of code, though mostly you would have to write some scripts to cover things that are not yet implemented.
Plain programming-- just use the IDE to hack out the code. The positive side: more control. The negative? A lot of times are spent on rewriting boilerplate code. And you have to maintain them.
So in a nutshell, I would prefer a Business Process Management System. One that I would recommend is ProcessMaker. It features an intuitive process designer that allows you to design workflow with drag and drop. And you can always write trigger to extend the process functionalities. It's open source as well.