I am looking for a general-purpose (considering PHP is actually made and initially meant (I understand they are be used different ways some times) for server side Web and JavaScript for client-side web) with C/C++/C#/Java-like syntax. Do you know of such?
Mythryl is a general-purpose scripting languages deliberately designed around C syntax.
Perhaps Pike with Fins
There's also Ch, an embeddable C/C++ interpreter.
Just look through the Comparison of programming languages, and see which ones fit your needs best. You might look at the language with dynamic Type Systems, because those are scripting languages. Hyped languages include Scala, Ruby (with the Ruby on Rails web framework), Groovy and others, if you need a start.
In general, Wikipedia's C language entry lists many: "C has directly or indirectly influenced many later languages such as Java, Perl, Python, PHP, JavaScript, LPC, C# and Unix's C Shell"
Specifically, for general-purpose "scripting" language that is very similar to C, I would strongly recommend Perl which fits the bill perfectly.
Perl's syntax (or at least a sub-set of it) is VERY C-like (to the point that ex-C programmers starting in Perl are unfortunately known to code in "C-ish Perl" style which is pretty much straight up C).
In additional to general syntax ideas, Perl supports a vast majority of C system functions and many other C-isms (e.g. fully functional printf, process control and IPC).
Perl these days is definitely a general purpose language - it is used for anything from web development (including modern frameworks like Catalyst MVC, Plack etc...), to enterprise software development including full blown servers, to system administration scripting and general "scripting" glue tasks.
In addition, it supports both Object Oriented programming (either using classic Perl OOP or using modern Moose), as well as functional programming.
Please note that when evaluating Perl, you should not rely on the numerous myths that exist out there - most of these are due to either people not being sufficiently familiar with Perl, or judging Perl based on a large mass of poor-code-quality dirty scripts written by system administrators who weren't software developers, or judging Perl based on its features in Perl versions that were popular 15 years ago (e.g. any criticism of Perl OOP circa 1998 is pretty much useless unless the person doing it is closely familiar with Moose).
P.S. Since your questions seems to be in "...coming from PHP" context, you should also note that PHP is in fact very similar to a subset of Perl - by design. To quote from php.net:
The syntax itself was similar to that of Perl, albeit much more limited, simple, and somewhat inconsistent.
Matter of fact, PHP started out as a collection of Perl CGI scripts.
I am currently working on a new project called Cpy, using Python's execution engine, but wrting codes in C-syntax. It is built with ANTLR and Python. Take a look at it: http://www.ideawu.com/cpy/
Pawn. Not general purpose (depending on your definition) but very good as a small embedded language.
Related
I recently asked a question on switching from C++ to C for writing an interpreter for speed and I got a comment from someone asking why on earth I would switch to C for that.
So I found out that I actually don't know why - except that C++ object oriented system has a much higher abstraction and therefore is slower.
Why are the interpreters of all popular scripting languages written in C and not in C++?
If you want to tell me about some other language where the interpreter for it isn't in C, please replace all occurences of popular scripting languages in this question with Ruby, Python, Perl and PHP.
C is a very old language, and is thus supported on pretty much every system available. It is therefore a good choice for any project that needs to be ported everywhere.
Ruby dates back to 1995. If you were writing an interpreter in 1995, what were your options? Java was released in the same year. (And was painfully slow in v1.0 and in many ways, not really worth using)
C++ was not yet standardized, and compiler support for it was very sketchy. (it had also not yet made the transition to the "modern C++" that we use today. I think the STL was proposed for standardization around this time as well. It didn't actually get added to the standard until years later. And even after it was added, it took several more years for 1) compilers to catch up, and 2) people to get used to this generic programming style. Back then, C++ was an OOP language first and foremost, and in many cases, that style of C++ was quite a bit slower than C. (In modern C++ code, that performance difference is pretty much eliminated, partly through better compilers, and partly through better coding styles, less reliance on OOP constructs and more on templates and generic programming)
Python was started in 1991. Perl is even older (1987)
PHP is from 1995 as well, but additionally, and importantly, was created by a guy who knew virtually nothing of programming. (and yes, of course this has shaped the language in many important ways)
The languages you mention were started in C because C was the best bet for a portable, future-proof platform back then.
And while I haven't looked this up, I'm willing to bet that apart from the PHP case, which is shaped by incompetence more than anything, the language designers of the other languages chose C because they *already knew it. So perhaps the lesson is not "C is best", but "the language you already know is best"
There are other reasons why C is often chosen:
experience and accessibility: C is a simple language that is fairly easy to pick up, lowering the barrier of entry. It's also popular, and there are a lot of experienced C programmers around. One reason why these languages have become popular might just be that it was easy to find programmers to help developing the interpreters. C++ is more complex to learn and use well. Today, that might not be so much of a problem, but 10 or 15 years ago?
interoperability: Most languages communicate through C interfaces. Since your fancy new language is going to rely on components written in other languages (especially in early versions when the language itself is limited and has few libraries), it's always nice and simple to call a C function.So since we're going to have some C code anyway, it might be tempting to go all the way and just write the whole thing in C.
performance: C doesn't get in your way much. It doesn't magically make your code fast, but it allows you to achieve good performance. So does C++, of course, or many other languages. But it's true for C as well.
portability: Practically every platform has a C compiler. Until recently, C++ compilers were much more hit and miss.
These reasons don't mean that C is in fact a superior language for writing interpreters (or for anything else), they simply explain some of the motivations that have caused others to write in C.
I'd guess it's because C is pretty much the only language that has a reasonably standard compiler for almost every platform in existence.
I would hazard a guess that it's in part due to 1998 C++ not being standardized until 1998, making achieving portability that much harder.
All those languages you list were developed before that standardization.
Why are the interpreters of all popular scripting languages written in C and not in C++?
What makes you think that they are written in C? In my experience, the majority of implementations for the majority of scripting languages are written in languages other than C.
Here's a couple of examples:
Ruby
BlueRuby: written in ABAP
HotRuby: JavaScript
Red Sun: ActionScript
SmallRuby: Smalltalk/X
MagLev: Ruby, GemStone Smalltalk
Smalltalk.rb: Smalltalk
Alumina: Smalltalk
Cardinal: PIR, NQP, PGE
RubyGoLightly: Go
YARI: Io
JRuby: Java
XRuby: Java
Microsoft IronRuby: C#
the original IronRuby by Wilco Bauwer: C#
Ruby.NET: C#
NETRuby: C#
MacRuby: Objective-C
Rubinius: Ruby, C++
MetaRuby: Ruby
RubyVM: Ruby
Python
IronPython: C#
Jython: Java
Pynie: PIR, NQP, PGE
PyPy: Python, RPython
PHP
P8: Java
Quercus: Java
Phalanger: C#
Perl6
Rakudo: Perl6, PIR, NQP, PGE
Pugs: Haskell
Sprixel: JavaScript
v6.pm: Perl5
Elf: CommonLisp
JavaScript
Narcissus: JavaScript
Ejacs: ELisp
Jint: C#
IronJS: F#
Rhino: Java
Mascara (ECMAScript Harmony Reference Implementation): Python
ECMAScript 4 Reference Implementation: Standard ML
The HotSpot JVM is written in C++, the Animorphic Smalltalk VM (from which HotSpot and V8 are derived) is written in C++, the Self VM (on which the Animorphic Smalltalk VM is based) is written in C++.
Interestingly enough, in many of the above cases, the implementations that are not written in C, are actually faster than the ones written in C.
As an example of two implementations that are written in C, take Lua and CPython. In both cases, they are actually written in a small subset of a very old version of C. The reason for this is that they want to be highly portable. CPython, for example, runs on platform for which a C++ compiler doesn't even exist. Also, Perl was written in 1989, CPython in 1990, Lua in 1993, SpiderMonkey in 1995. C++ wasn't standardized until 1998.
The complexity of C++ is great compared to that of C - many people consider it one of the most complex and error prone languages in existance.
Many of the features of C++ are problematic as well - the STL was standardized many years ago and it still lacks one great implementation.
OOP is certainly great, but it does not outweigh C++'s deficiencies in many scenarios.
Most known compiler books are written with examples in C.
Also two of the major tools lexx (builds a lexer) and yacc (Translates a grammar to C) have support for C.
If the question is about why C and not C++ the answer comes down to the fact that when you implement a scripting language the C++ object model comes into your way. Its so restricted that you will not be able to use it for your own objects.
So you can only use this for the internals and they there you usually do not get enough benefits from C++ over the much simpler C language, which makes it easier to port and distribute.
The only problem when implementing a script language in C are missing coroutine support (you have to switch your stack pointer in some way) and most important there is no way to do exception handling without a lot of overhead (compared to C++).
There are many scripting language communities claiming that the language can be used for everything but in fact, nearly everybody uses it for one specific thing, e.g.: web development. If I take a look at Ruby, for example, they tell you its general-purpose but actually everybody is using it with rails for web development only..
Can you list me some uses of popular general-purpose scripting languages for the local PC? (except embedding) Are there any?
Is the fast development usually worth having to bring the whole interpreter with your program? Then there would be some language-dependent performance and stability problems too in most cases..
best regards,
lamas
I tend to use Python for most things that aren't compute bound, i.e. they aren't restricted by how many computations you do per second. Some of the things I've used Python for are:
General scripts to manipulate images etc. with the Python Imaging Library.
GUI frontends for command line applications using the pexpect module.
Mathematical modeling of microbial systems.
Bioinformatics.
Some web programming.
etc...
When the program/algorithm is compute bound, I use C together with Python and Ctypes. Does this fit your definition of general purpose? It's certainly useful for a wide variety of applications, but not suitable if the program needs to crunch numbers fast.
Stability: Python 2.5/2.6 is rock solid. Never had a crash that wasn't caused by self-stupidity.
Fast development: It's definitely worth it for me. For the most part, in the field where I work, programmer time is orders of magnitude more valuable than processor time. I'm quite happy to let a program run for hours if I can write it in a few days instead of a few weeks.
I often use PHP for things that I used to use bat files for. Much easier to write. Ironically, the deployment scripts to create installable materials for my web apps from the subversion sources are written in PHP.
Python is popular in the gaming community. EVE Online is written in python.
claiming that they can be used for everything but I often can't find any examples for that
You are basing your question on an incorrect assumption. Although, as pointed out, a Turing complete language will be able to compute what you require ... languages are 'viewed' by most as the sum of their most useful features and productive semantics.
The reality is:
Most scripting languages can do the same things, or support the most common things via libraries.
Some languages make a subset of operations more convenient, take Perl and regular expressions as an example
CPU time is cheap, as is RAM. Simple to understand code is the priority for most people.
The rise of the scripting languages is natural. Trying to assert any one language, approach or level of execution is good for a range of situations is usually fruitless.
What do you want?
What is the best language for that?
Is is fast enough or small enough? Usually the answer is yes
Imagine trying to use Python where you should be using Erlang, or C instead of Lisp because you thought all languages are equal. They aren't, even though, you can achieve the same things in a problem domain, in most languages/platforms with varying levels of ballache dependant on the task.
I often use ruby for what other people would create bash/sh files for. I find Ruby syntax intuitive for batch tasks along with a lot of other sorts of tasks(it's my goto language)
Perl is extremely popular for general scripting in unixes, such as there are package managers and websites and maintenance scripts written in perl.
Python is extremely popular for both web and application use.
VBA Is popular for being abused to write programs inside of Access, and also was once commonly used in ASP for websites (right?)
Nobody mentioned AppleScript!
Hahah, no seriously, Perl runs everywhere, is installed by default on (almost) any Unix-family OS (and is easy to get on Windows), and is extremely useful for gluing things together. And if you browse a bit at CPAN you'll see that it's extremely general-purpose. "Swiss army chainsaw" was intended as a slur but I think of it fondly. Performance is good too, though it hardly ever actually matters. Larry Wall's goal was "make easy things easy and hard things possible".
OK OK, so I'm a fanboy still, sigh.
This is sort of a "best language" question, but hopefully with enough of a twist to make it worthwhile.
As someone who only uses C and C#, I'm curious to learn a dynamic language to expand my knowledge. I don't know which to choose.
The thing is that my motivation isn't necessarily to create any "real world" projects, or projects that integrate with other systems, but rather just to learn.
With that said, for someone only familiar languages such as those I mentioned, and possibly ignoring obscurity and lack of support..
Which dynamic language would be the biggest departure?
Which would introduce the most novel concepts?
Which is the exemplar of dynamic languages?
I would suggest learning IronPython. As a language it will still be a significant departure for you, but you'll be able to use everything in the .NET framework that you're familiar with. (I usually think it's a good idea to try to vary just one aspect of development radically at a time... work your way through the different aspects one at a time, and you'll always be comfortable with part of what you're doing, which will help you learn the new part more quickly, IMO.)
Also, with C# 4 you'll be able to call into IronPython from your C# code, including using its dynamic features that way.
The functional languages (LISP, Scheme, etc.) are always worth checking out. They may be some of the bigger departures.
JavaScript is a great stepping stone to go from the C arena to the functional arena. From there you can mess around with JQuery, which, although not a language, forces you to do things in non procedural ways.
Another often overlooked language is SQL. It's obviously a niche language, and as Josh points out, not really 'dynamic', but acquiring a deep understanding of they way set based languages work can really progress a coder.
Careful, if you 'Learn' to much you may end up frustrated with the older languages.
Which dynamic language would be the biggest departure?
Which would introduce the most novel concepts?
I guess that would include Scheme, Erlang and Oz
Which is the exemplar of dynamic languages?
I'd say Ruby and Python
I would suggest any Lisp dialect or Smalltalk. These are dynamic and had heavy influence on the design of other, more mainstream languages.
They also include interesting concepts that are not found in other languages.
Another interesting dynamic language to have a look at is Lua.
It is hard to say, it is definitely a matter of personal taste in a lot of ways. I like learning Python but I am sure that you could learn just as many good things from Ruby about a dynamically typed language.
If you are used to C and C# then any dynamically typed language is going to be a departure. So I say you should use Python because that is what I like, and hopefully you will like it too. If you start using it and you hate it then try something else (like Ruby, Perl, PHP, etc.).
I would say that Lisp fits most, if not all, of your criteria. It's definitely a big departure from C/C++ and C#. It has got alot of novel concepts, and many would argue that it's hard to find a more dynamic language.
Barring Lisp, I myself would go for Ruby.
I'm going to have to vote for Common Lisp here. It is a highly dynamic language that can be adapted to just about anything. You get not only functional programming, but also OO, and even procedural if you so desire. And macros in Lisp are very interesting to study, since to my knowledge no other language has its equivalent.
Plus, developing in a functional style tends to help development in other languages as well. For example, I've noticed that I do OO primarily with immutable objects, thanks to concepts influenced by Lisp and Scheme. And with this, I've noticed an improvement in the stability and maintainability of my OO apps. Just my two cents.
I've been a C++ and C# developer for a long time, and recently started experimenting and learning other languages. I played with Ruby for little while and like it, but it wasn't what I wanted.
I ended up choosing Erlang. After reading about Erlang, I've decided that I really wanted to learn it. I'm not learning Erlang with any hopes of getting a job writing Erlang code. I'm learning Erlang only to become a better developer.
I really do like this language so far. It's only been about a month, and the syntax still gets me sometimes, but I can really see the power of the pattern matching and get excited to write it again. I struggled with the concept of everything being non-mutable at first. But this was mostly because I've "grown up" on C# and C++. C# is a great language and has some amazing tools, but you really have fun with some other languages, particularly something like Erlang. Just don't expect to land a job as a full time Erlang developer. (At least not yet).
For anyone curious, my hobby project is multiple player iPhone app connecting to an Erlang server. For a Windows developer, this has been a major change. But it has renewed my passion for programming, which really was my goal.
If you really want to go crazy but want things to at least be slightly familiar (I know that sounds like a contradiction but it's true), look at F#. It's a type-inferred language but it supports a lot of dynamic type properties. It's a functional language built on top of the CLR so you get full use of the .Net object system which is cool. Because it's a functional language, there are enough novel concepts to really work your brain.
If you really want to go for "biggest departure", Clojure might be of interest. It's a Lisp dialect built on the JVM. It's getting some pretty serious attention both in the Java and Lisp world. It might suit your purposes.
I've been reading a bit about functional programming recently and am keen to get have a bit of a play. are there any decent scripting languages that support functional programming? I find that the bulk of my ad-hoc programming is done in Python, so I thought I might be able to do the same with a functional language. Any recommendations?
Lua appears to fit your needs:
Lua (pronounced /ˈluː.ə/ LOO-uh) is a
lightweight, reflective, imperative
and functional programming language,
designed as a scripting language with
extensible semantics as a primary
goal.
Scala can also be used as a scripting language. It runs on the JVM and supports both imperative OO and functional programming. Using this you can have access to the entire Java class library.
Python can be written in a functional style, as can JavaScript. If you mean something more purely functional, then you could try Haskell.
GNU's Guile can be used as a stand-alone script interpreter, see this FAQ entry for the details. Not sure how much general programming support is in Guile, though, but it could at least get you started quickly with something that should look and feel like a "traditional" functional language.
Perl can do functional style programming very well. It isn't a pure functional language by any means, but it supports quite a lot of functional idioms. The classic full-length treatment is Mark Jason Dominus's Higher Order Perl, which is now available freely online.
For briefer introductions, take a look at these slides:
Functional programming in Perl
Introduction to functional programming in Perl
It depends on what you mean by "scripting language." It isn't commonly viewed that way, but many Scheme implementations seem to fit the bill as well as Python, and Lisp is sort of the archetypal functional language.
Julia language. Also not just a "scripting" language, as fast as C.
See my answer here: https://www.quora.com/Whats-a-good-scripting-functional-programming-language/answer/Páll-Haraldsson
I recently work on a functional scripting language and already finished the first version. It is a bit like a haskell/perl combination and therefore nice for scripting and mathematical problems, too.
For example here is a code snippet demonstrating how easy it is:
5 times {echo["Iteration: " concat str[x]]}
If you are interested, you can give it a try: http://ac1235.github.io
Kotlin is a practical functional language, mainly for the JVM. It has a scripting flavor called kscript. I've used it for shell scripting in personal projects. Simple example:
#!/usr/bin/env kscript
args.forEach { arg -> println("arg: $arg") }
Run it:
> ./example.kts hey you
arg: hey
arg: you
Drawbacks:
Requires JVM
Slow startup
For more info:
https://github.com/holgerbrandl/kscript
Search stackoverflow for kscript
If you're comfortable with the JVM and like functional programming, kscript is worth exploring.
I'm looking at adding scripting functionality to an existing codebase and am weighing up the pros/cons of various packages. Lua is probably the most obvious choice, but I was wondering if people have any other suggestions based on their experience.
Scripts will be triggered upon certain events and may stay resident for a period of time. For example upon startup a script may define several options which the program presents to the user as a number of buttons. Upon selecting one of these buttons the program will notify the script where further events may occur.
These are the only real requirements;
Must be a cross-platform library that is compilable from source
Scripts must be able to call registered code-side functions
Code must be able to call script-side functions
Be used within a C/C++ codebase.
Based on my own experience:
Python. IMHO this is a good choice. We have a pretty big code base with a lot of users and they like it a lot.
Ruby. There are some really nice apps such as Google Sketchup that use this. I wrote a Sketchup plugin and thought it was pretty nice.
Tcl. This is the old-school embeddable scripting language of choice, but it doesn't have a lot of momentum these days. It's high quality though, they use it on the Hubble Space Telescope!
Lua. I've only done baby stuff with it but IIRC it only has a floating point numeric type, so make sure that's not a problem for the data you will be working with.
We're lucky to be living in the golden age of scripting, so it's hard to make a bad choice if you choose from any of the popular ones.
I have played around a little bit with Spidermonkey. It seems like it would at least be worth a look at in your situation. I have heard good things about Lua as well. The big argument for using a javascript scripting language is that a lot of developers know it already and would probably be more comfortable from the get go, whereas Lua most likely would have a bit of a learning curve.
I'm not completely positive but I think that spidermonkey your 4 requirements.
I've used Python extensively for this purpose and have never regretted it.
Lua is has the most straight-forward C API for binding into a code base that I've ever used. In fact, I usually quickly roll bindings for it by hand. Whereas, you often wouldn't consider doing so without a generator like swig for others. Also, it's typically faster and more light weight than the alternatives, and coroutines are a very useful feature that few other languages provide.
AngelScript
lets you call standard C functions and C++ methods with no need for proxy functions. The application simply registers the functions, objects, and methods that the scripts should be able to work with and nothing more has to be done with your code. The same functions used by the application internally can also be used by the scripting engine, which eliminates the need to duplicate functionality.
For the script writer the scripting language follows the widely known syntax of C/C++ (with minor changes), but without the need to worry about pointers and memory leaks.
The original question described Tcl to a "T".
Tcl was designed from the beginning to be an embedded scripting language. It has evolved to be a first class dynamic language in its own right but still is used all over the world as an embeded language. It is available under the BSD license so it is just about as free as it gets. It also compiles on pretty much any moden platform, and many not-so-modern. And not only does it work on desktop systems, there are variations available for mobile platforms.
Tcl excels as a "glue" language, where you can write performance-intensive functions in C while still benefiting from the advantages of a scripting language for less performance critical parts of the application.
Tcl also comes with a first class GUI toolkit (Tk) that is arguably one of the easiest cross platform GUI toolkits available. It also interfaces very nicely with SQLite and other databases, and has had built-in support for unicode for quite some time.
If the scripting interface will be made available to your customers (as opposed to simply enabling your own engineers to work at the scripting level), Tcl is extremely easy to learn as there are a total of only 12 rules that govern the entire language (as of tcl 8.6). In fact, Tcl shines as a way to invent domain specific languages which is often how it is used as an end-user scripting solution.
There were some excellent suggestions already, but I just wanted to mention that Perl can also be called / can call to C/C++.
You probably could use any modern scripting / bytecode language.
If you're willing to put up with the growing pains of a new product, you could use the Parrot VM. Which has support for many, if not all of the languages listed on this page. Unfortunately it's not done yet, but that hasn't stopped some people from using it in a production environment.
I think most people are probably mentioning the scripting language that they are most familiar with. From my perspective, Tcl was designed specifically to interface with C, so your problem domain is tailor-made for the language. However, I'm sure Python, Perl, or Lua would be fine. You should probably choose the language that is most familiar to your current team, since that will reduce the learning time.