I'm working with data that is natively supplied as rational numbers. I have a slick generic C# class which beautifully represents this data in C# and allows conversion to many other forms. Unfortunately, when I turn around and want to store this in SQL, I've got a couple solutions in mind but none of them are very satisfying.
Here is an example. I have the raw value 2/3 which my new Rational<int>(2, 3) easily handles in C#. The options I've thought of for storing this in the database are as follows:
Just as a decimal/floating point, i.e. value = 0.66666667 of various precisions and exactness.
Pros: this allows me to query the data, e.g. find values < 1.
Cons: it has a loss of exactness and it is ugly when I go to display this simple value back in the UI.
Store as two exact integer fields, e.g. numerator = 2, denominator = 3 of various precisions and exactness.
Pros: This allows me to precisely represent the original value and display it in its simplest form later.
Cons: I now have two fields to represent this value and querying is now complicated/less efficient as every query must perform the arithmetic, e.g. find numerator / denominator < 1.
Serialize as string data, i.e. "2/3". I would be able to know the max string length and have a varchar that could hold this.
Pros: I'm back to one field but with an exact representation.
Cons: querying is pretty much busted and pay a serialization cost.
A combination of #1 & #2.
Pros: easily/efficiently query for ranges of values, and have precise values in the UI.
Cons: three fields (!?!) to hold one piece of data, must keep multiple representations in sync which breaks D.R.Y.
A combination of #1 & #3.
Pros: easily/efficiently query for ranges of values, and have precise values in the UI.
Cons: back down to two fields to hold one piece data, must keep multiple representations in sync which breaks D.R.Y., and must pay extra serialization costs.
Does anyone have another out-of-the-box solution which is better than these? Are there other things I'm not considering? Is there a relatively easy way to do this in SQL that I'm just unaware of?
If you're using SQL Server 2005 or 2008, you have the option to define your own CLR data types:
Beginning with SQL Server 2005, you
can use user-defined types (UDTs) to
extend the scalar type system of the
server, enabling storage of CLR
objects in a SQL Server database. UDTs
can contain multiple elements and can
have behaviors, differentiating them
from the traditional alias data types
which consist of a single SQL Server
system data type.
Because UDTs are accessed by the
system as a whole, their use for
complex data types may negatively
impact performance. Complex data is
generally best modeled using
traditional rows and tables. UDTs in
SQL Server are well suited to the
following:
Date, time, currency, and extended numeric types
Geospatial applications
Encoded or encrypted data
If you can live with the limitations, I can't imagine a better way to map data you're already capturing in a custom class.
I would probably go with Option #4, but use a calculated column for the 3rd column to avoid the sync/DRY issue (and also means you actually only store 2 columns, avoiding the "three fields" issue).
In SQL server, calculated column is defined like so:
CREATE TABLE dbo.Whatever(
Numerator INT NOT NULL,
Denominator INT NOT NULL,
Value AS (Numerator / Denominator) PERSISTED
)
(note you may have to do some type conversion and verification that Denominator is not zero, etc).
Also, SQL 2005 added a PERSISTED calculated column that would get rid of the calculation at query time.
How much precision do you need?
The language, C# or otherwise, will round 2/3rds at a given position in the precision. If it's acceptable for whatever you are working on to use decimal values of say scientific notation of 10, then set the precision accordingly in the db.
If the precision is really a concern, then separate the numerator & denominator. This would ensure you always have access to whatever precision you want, and you can use a computed column to represent the value for quick filtering:
numerator INT,
denominator INT,
result AS CASE WHEN denominator > 0 THEN numerator / denominator ELSE NULL END
I have experimented a little bit with using the geometry data type in SQL Server 2008 to store and manipulate rational numbers. Basically, I assume that the numerator goes in the X slot and the denominator goes in the Y slot of a fictitious geometry point.
This was good for my needs, but it might be useless for yours. That will depend on what your priorities are (performance, code readability, etc.). I personally found that T-SQL for geometry data manipulation is hard to write and read.
how much precision are you looking at ? double/float provide decent precision(in my opinion). Am pretty sure scientific/astronomical data need a lot more precision that that. I do know that libraries like matlab and mathematica are good at these. I found that you can use mathematica with your .net program. Here is the link
Edit: adding more links and quotes
"When Mathematica operates on rational numbers, it gives an exact result no matter how many digits are required" from here
Another good read, but you would have to implement it I guess
Related
There are three tables in our sql server 2008
transact_orders
transact_shipments
transact_child_orders.
Three of them have a common column carrying_cost. Data type is same in all the three tables.It is float with NUMERIC_PRECISION 53 and NUMERIC_PRECISION_RADIX 2.
In table 1 - transact_orders this column has value 5.1 for three rows. convert(decimal(20,15), carrying_cost) returns 5.100000..... here.
Table 2 - transact_shipments three rows are fetching carrying_cost from those three rows in transact_orders.
convert(decimal(20,15), carrying_cost) returns 5.100000..... here also.
Table 3 - transact_child_orders is summing up those three carrying costs from transact_shipments. And the value shown there is 15.3 when I run a normal select.
But convert(decimal(20,15), carrying_cost) returns 15.299999999999999 in this stable. And its showing that precision gained value in ui also. Though ui is only fetching the value, not doing any conversion. In the java code the variable which is fetching the value from the db is defined as double.
The code in step 3, to sum up the three carrying_costs is simple ::
...sum(isnull(transact_shipments.carrying_costs,0)) sum_carrying_costs,...
Any idea why this change occurs in the third step ? Any help will be appreciated. Please let me know if any more information is needed.
Rather than post a bunch of comments, I'll write an answer.
Floats are not suitable for precise values where you can't accept rounding errors - For example, finance.
Floats can scale from very small numbers, to very high numbers. But they don't do that without losing a degree of accuracy. You can look the details up on line, there is a host of good work out there for you to read.
But, simplistically, it's because they're true binary numbers - some decimal numbers just can't be represented as a binary value with 100% accuracy. (Just like 1/3 can't be represented with 100% accuracy in decimal.)
I'm not sure what is causing your performance issue with the DECIMAL data type, often it's because there is some implicit conversion going on. (You've got a float somewhere, or decimals with different definitions, etc.)
But regardless of the cause; nothing is faster than integer arithmetic. So, store your values are integers? £1.10 could be stored as 110p. Or, if you know you'll get some fractions of a pence for some reason, 11000dp (deci-pennies).
You do then need to consider the biggest value you will ever reach, and whether INT or BIGINT is more appropriate.
Also, when working with integers, be careful of divisions. If you divide £10 between 3 people, where does the last 1p need to go? £3.33 for two people and £3.34 for one person? £0.01 eaten by the bank? But, invariably, it should not get lost to the digital elves.
And, obviously, when presenting the number to a user, you then need to manipulate it back to £ rather than dp; but you need to do that often anyway, to get £10k or £10M, etc.
Whatever you do, and if you don't want rounding errors due to floating point values, don't use FLOAT.
(There is ALOT written on line about how to use floats, and more importantly, how not to. It's a big topic; just don't fall into the trap of "it's so accurate, it's amazing, it can do anything" - I can't count the number of time people have screwed up data using that unfortunately common but naive assumption.)
Is there a list of best practice MySQL data types for common applications. For example, the list would contain the best data type and size for id, ip address, email, subject, summary, description content, url, date (timestamp and human readable), geo points, media height, media width, media duration, etc
Thank you!!!
i don't know of any, so let's start one!
numeric ID/auto_increment primary keys: use an unsigned integer. do not use 0 as a value. and keep in mind the maximum value of of the various sizes, i.e. don't use int if you don't need 4 billion values when the 16 million offered by mediumint will suffice.
dates: unless you specifically need dates/times that are outside the supported range of mysql's DATE and TIME types, use them! if you instead use unix timestamps, you have to convert them to use the built-in date and time functions. if your app needs unix timestamps, you can always convert the standard date and time data types on the way out using unix_timestamp().
ip addresses: use inet_aton() and inet_ntoa() since it easily compacts an ip address in to 4 bytes and gives you the ability to do range searches that utilize indexes.
Integer Display Width You likely define your integers something like this "INT(4)" but have been baffled by the fact that (4) has no real effect on the stored numbers. In other words, you can store numbers like 999999 just fine. The reason is that for integers, (4) is the display width, and only has an effect if used with the ZEROFILL modifier. Further, this is for display purposes only, so you could define a column as "INT(4) ZEROFILL" and store 99999. If you stored 999, the mysql REPL (console) would output 0999 when you've selected this column.
In other words, if you don't need the ZEROFILL stuff, you can leave off the display width.
Money: Use the Decimal data type. Based on real-world production scenarios I recommend (19,8).
EDIT: My original recommendation was (19,4); however, I've recently run into a production issue where the client reported that they absolutely needed decimal with a "scale" of "8"; thus "4" wasn't enough and was causing improper tax calculations. I now recommend (19,8) based on a real-world scenario. I would love to hear stories needing a more granular scale.
I've read that (all things equal) PHP is typically faster than MySQL at arithmetic and string manipulation operations. This being the case, where does one draw the line between what one asks the database to do versus what is done by the web server(s)? We use stored procedures exclusively as our data-access layer. My unwritten rule has always been to leave output formatting (including string manipulation and arithmetic) to the web server. So our queries return:
unformatted dates
null values
no calculated values (i.e. return values for columns "foo" and "bar" and let the web server calculate foo*bar if it needs to display value foobar)
no substring-reduced fields (except when shortened field is so significantly shorter that we want to do it at database level to reduce result set size)
two separate columns to let front-end case the output as required
What I'm interested in is feedback about whether this is generally an appropriate approach or whether others know of compelling performance/maintainability considerations that justify pushing these activities to the database.
Note: I'm intentionally tagging this question to be dbms-agnostic, as I believe this is an architectural consideration that comes into play regardless of one's specific dbms.
I would draw the line on how certain layers could rotate out in place for other implementations. It's very likely that you will never use a different RDBMS or have a mobile version of your site, but you never know.
The more orthogonal a data point is, the closer it should be to being released from the database in that form. If on every theoretical version of your site your values A and B are rendered A * B, that should be returned by your database as A * B and never calculated client side.
Let's say you have something that's format heavy like a date. Sometimes you have short dates, long dates, English dates... One pure form should be returned from the database and then that should be formatted in PHP.
So the orthogonality point works in reverse as well. The more dynamic a data point is in its representation/display, the more it should be handled client side. If a string A is always taken as a substring of the first six characters, then have that be returned from the database as pre-substring'ed. If the length of the substring depends on some factor, like six for mobile and ten for your web app, then return the larger string from the database and format it at run time using PHP.
Usually, data formatting is better done on client side, especially culture-specific formatting.
Dynamic pivoting (i. e. variable columns) is also an example of what is better done on client side
When it comes to string manipulation and dynamic arrays, PHP is far more powerful than any RDBMS I'm aware of.
However, data formatting can use additional data which is also kept in the database. Like, the coloring info for each row can be stored in additional table.
You should then correspond the color to each row on database side, but wrap it into the tags on PHP side.
The rule of thumb is: retrieve everything you need for formatting in as few database round-trips as possible, then do the formatting itself on the client side.
I believe in returning the data pretty much as-is from the database and letting it be formatted on the front-end instead. I don't stick to it religously, but in general I think it's better as it provides greater flexibility - e.g. 1 sproc can service n different requirements for data, each of which can format the data as each individually needs. Otherwise, you end up either with multiple queries returning the same data with slightly different formatting from the DB (from a SQL Server point of view, thus reducing execution plan caching benefits - therefore negative impact on performance).
Leave output formatting to the web server
What are your thoughts on this? I'm working on integrating some new data that's in a tab-delimited text format, and all of the decimal columns are kept as single integers; in order to determine the decimal amount you need to multiply the number by .01. It does this for things like percentages, weight and pricing information. For example, an item's price is expressed as 3259 in the data files, and when I want to display it I would need to multiply it in order to get the "real" amount of 32.59.
Do you think this is a good or bad idea? Should I be keeping my data structure identical to the one provided by the vendor, or should I make the database columns true decimals and use SSIS or some sort of ETL process to automatically multiply the integer columns into their decimal equivalent? At this point I haven't decided if I am going to use an ORM or Stored Procedures or what to retrieve the data, so I'm trying to think long term and decide which approach to use. I could also easily just handle this in code from a DTO or similar, something along the lines of:
public class Product
{
// ...
private int _price;
public decimal Price
{
get
{
return (this._price * .01);
}
set
{
this._price = (value / .01);
}
}
}
But that seems like extra and unnecessary work on the part of a class. How would you approach this, keeping in mind that the data is provided in the integer format by a vendor that you will regularly need to get updates from.
"Do you think this is a good or bad idea?"
Bad.
"Should I be keeping my data structure identical to the one provided by the vendor?"
No.
"Should I make the database columns true decimals?"
Yes.
It's so much simpler to do what's right. Currently, the data is transmitted with no "." to separate the whole numbers from the decimals; that doesn't any real significance.
The data is decimal. Decimal math works. Use the decimal math provided by your language and database. Don't invent your own version of Decimal arithmetic.
Personally I would much prefer to have the data stored correctly in my database and just do a simple conversion every time an update comes in.
Pedantically: they aren't kept as ints either. They are strings that require parsing.
Philisophically: you have information in the file and you should write data into the database. That means transforming the information in any ways necessary to make it meaningful/useful. If you don't do this transform up front, then you'll be doomed to repeat the transform across all consumers of the database.
There are some scenarios where you aren't allowed to transform the data, such as being able to answer the question: "What was in the file?". Those scenarios would require the data to be written as string - if the parse failed, you wouldn't have an accurate representation of the file.
In my mind the most important facet of using Decimal over Int in this scenario is maintainability.
Data stored in the tables should be clearly meaningful without need for arbitrary manipulation. If manipulation is required is should be clearly evident that it is (such as from the field name).
I recently dealt with data where days of the week were stored as values 2-8. You can not imagine the fall out this caused (testing didn't show the problem for a variety of reasons, but live use did cause political explosions).
If you do ever run in to such a situation, I would be absolutely certain to ensure data can not be written to or read from the table without use of stored procedures or views. This enables you to ensure the necessary manipulation is both enforced and documented. If you don't have both of these, some poor sod who follows you in the future will curse your very name.
SQL databases seem to be the cornerstone of most software. However, it seems optimized for textual data. In fact when doing any queries involving numerical data, integers specifically, it seems inefficient that the numbers are getting converted to text and then back to native formats both ways between the application and the database. This same inefficiency seems to apply to BLOB data as well. My understanding is that even with something like Linq to SQL, this two way conversion is occuring in the background.
Are there general ways to bypass this overhead with SQL? Are there certain database management systems that handle this more efficiently than others (ie, with non-standard extensions/API's)?
Clarification. In the following select statement, the list of numbers after IN could be more easily passed as a raw array of int, but there seems to be no way of achieving that optimization level.
SELECT foo FROM bar WHERE baz IN (23, 34, 45, 9854004, ...)
Don't suppose. Measure.
Format conversion is not likely to be a measurable cost for database work, unless you are misusing the database as an arithmetic engine.
The IO cost for LOBs, especially for CLOBS with character conversion, can become significant; the remedy here, once you know that the simplest thing that might work actually has a noticeable performance impact, is to minimize the number of times you copy the LOB data. Use whatever SQL parameter binding style allows you to transfer the data directly between its point of creation or use, and the database -- often this is binding the LOB to a stream or I/O channel.
But don't do this until you have a way to measure the impact, and have measurements showing that this is your bottleneck.
Numerical data in a database is not stored as text. I guess it depends on the database, but it certainly doesn't have to be and isn't.
BLOBs are stored exactly how you set them -- by definition, the DB has no way to interpret the information -- I guess it could compress if it found that to be useful. BLOBs are not translated into text.
Here's how Oracle stores numbers:
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B28359_01/server.111/b28318/datatype.htm#i16209
Internal Numeric Format
Oracle Database stores numeric data in variable-length format. Each value is stored in scientific notation, with 1 byte used to store the exponent and up to 20 bytes to store the mantissa. The resulting value is limited to 38 digits of precision. Oracle Database does not store leading and trailing zeros. For example, the number 412 is stored in a format similar to 4.12 x 102, with 1 byte used to store the exponent(2) and 2 bytes used to store the three significant digits of the mantissa(4,1,2). Negative numbers include the sign in their length.
MySQL info here:
http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/numeric-types.html
Look at the table -- a TINYINT is represented in 1 byte (range -128 - 127), not possible if stored as text.
EDIT: With the clarification -- I would say use the API in your language that looks something like this (pseudocode)
stmt = conn.Prepare("SELECT * FROM TABLE where x in (?, ?, ?)");
stmt.SetInt(0, x);
stmt.SetInt(1, y);
stmt.SetInt(2, z);
I don't believe that the underlying protocols use text for the transport of parameters.